Opto triacs and particularly MOC3022

[mikemara]

I have tried to simulate MOC3022 on ORCAD. It just doesn't not work. I went throught hell trying to do this but this just doesnt work. I always get this error : X_ISO is undefined.
I have asked so many people for help but none could. You guys are my last chance. I am adding my project in Orcad on a ZIP file which is linked to my google drive. You just download this zip file and open it in your ORCAD. NOTE: I have tried all MOCS in orcad , non of them is working. It always gives me this stupied error.

*MOC's simulation is on page 2.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_9n0eOGDfdkYTNTN0RoZnlJa0U/edit?usp=sharing

Thanx

Mike

 

[kubeek]

I tried opening it in orcad 16.6, but i cannot recognize any of those files. Can you make it into a dsn file?

 

[mikemara]

Sorry here is perfect link....https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_9n0eOGDfdkYTNTN0RoZnlJa0U/edit?usp=sharing

 

[mikemara]

It has to work now. Thanx for help.

 

[kubeek]

Ok, where is your model for the MOC3022? You need to include it in a library or somewhere else.

 

[mikemara]

How do I make that happen?

 

[kubeek]

first you need to find a pspice model for your part. Sometimes manufacturers provide it, sometimes you can find it on the internet, and sometimes you would have to make it yourself.
As for the how to get it into the simulation, I cant really help you with such and old version as i have never seen it. My vesion of pspice in the simulation profile has a part where you set the libraries used, and mine points to a file "nom.lib" in "C:\Cadence\SPB_16.6\tools\PSpice\Library", which is a text file that lists all the subsequent pspice libraries containing all the provided parts. So when you get your model and find a similar file in your version, you can add your model to it in the same way the other parts are done.
There likely are other ways described in your user manual, like putting the model straight into your simulation data files, but this how i did it last time i had to edit these when i wanted to include some new digital logic gates.

 

[mikemara]

can you please log in to forum chat? I don't have old version of orcad. I have 16.5. I dont know where to get this part from...I went looking all over the internet.

 

[alec_t]

A spice model library MOC302x.lib includes the MOC3022 model and is available for free download from the Yahoo LTspice User Group. Perhaps you could edit/run that model in Orcad?

 

[kubeek]

I tried yesterday, but got into a problem with Orcad. https://electronics.stackexchange.c...e-model-for-optoisolator-triac-driver-circuit I used this model.
I couldn´t get the dependent source B1 to work in orcad, it said something along the lines that the control voltage needs to be a V source. Do you know what kind of dependent source is B in ltspice? I took it for voltage controlled current source, but that may be wrong.

 

[mikemara]

I also tried today again but it didn't work for me

* I have sent an email to FAIRCHILD SEMICONDUCTOR and asked them for a simulation model. Let's see if they can help.

 

[alec_t]

I couldn´t get the dependent source B1 to work in orcad, it said something along the lines that the control voltage needs to be a V source. Do you know what kind of dependent source is B in ltspice?

In the LTspice model (as per post #10 link), B1 is an 'arbitrary behavioral current source' with a current which is a function of the current through D1.

 

[mikemara]

Can you please log into chat?

 

[DerStrom8]

Please carry on your conversation here, not on chat. Other people can't benefit in the future if you keep it in the chat.

 

[mikemara]

OK, so did you manage to make it work? I am new to orcad.....

 

[kubeek]

try this, at least it seams to compile without errors.

* OPTO TRIAC
* Helmut Sennewald  8/10/2004
* MOC3022   I_trig=5mA
*  D+  D-  MT2  MT1
.SUBCKT MOC3022 1 2 3 4
.PARAM Itrig=5m
.PARAM RH1=20k
.PARAM RH2=20k
.PARAM RH3=16.7k
.MODEL DA D (Is=0.1u Rs=2 Cjo=50p)
.MODEL DL D(Is=1e-20 Rs=5)
Q2 vb1 vb1p vd1 0 PNP1
Q1 vb1p vb1 4 0 NPN1
R3 vb1 4 {RH2}
D1 1 22 DL
V1 22 2 0
R1 ctrl1 4 1
C1 ctrl1 4 10µ
R2 ctrl1 vb1 {RH1}
R4 vd1 vb1p {RH3}
*
F1 ctrl1 4 V1(-500)*3m/Itrig
*
R6 vd2 vb2 {RH2}
D3 vd2 3 DA
Q3 vb2 vb2p 4 0 PNP1
Q4 vb2p vb2 vd2 0 NPN1
E1 vd2 N001 ctrl1 4 -1
R5 N001 vb2 {RH1}
R7 vb2p 4 {RH3}
D2 3 vd1 DA
R34 3 4 100MEG
.MODEL PNP1 PNP(Is=1e-15 BF=10 Cjc=10p Cje=20p Tf=0.1u Ise=1e-12)
.MODEL NPN1 NPN(Is=1e-15 BF=10 Cjc=10p Cje=20p Tf=0.1u Ise=1e-12)
.ENDS

 

[kubeek]

this seems like it works as an optotriac, but the main triac doesnt seem to work properly.

* OPTO TRIAC
* Helmut Sennewald  8/10/2004
* MOC3022   I_trig=5mA
*  D+  D-  MT2  MT1
.SUBCKT MOC3022 1 2 4 6
.PARAM Itrig=5m
.PARAM RH1=20k
.PARAM RH2=20k
.PARAM RH3=16.7k

Q2 vb1 vb1p vd1 0 PNP1
Q1 vb1p vb1 4 0 NPN1
R3 vb1 4 {RH2}
D1 1 22 DL
V1 22 2 0
R1 ctrl1 4 1
C1 ctrl1 4 10µ
R2 ctrl1 vb1 {RH1}
R4 vd1 vb1p {RH3}
*
F1 ctrl1 4 V1(-500)*3m/Itrig
*
R6 vd2 vb2 {RH2}
D3 vd2 6 DA
Q3 vb2 vb2p 4 0 PNP1
Q4 vb2p vb2 vd2 0 NPN1
E1 vd2 N001 ctrl1 4 -1
R5 N001 vb2 {RH1}
R7 vb2p 4 {RH3}
D2 6 vd1 DA
R34 6 4 100MEG
.MODEL DA D (Is=0.1u Rs=2 Cjo=50p)
.MODEL DL D(Is=1e-20 Rs=5)
.MODEL PNP1 PNP(Is=1e-15 BF=10 Cjc=10p Cje=20p Tf=0.1u Ise=1e-12)
.MODEL NPN1 NPN(Is=1e-15 BF=10 Cjc=10p Cje=20p Tf=0.1u Ise=1e-12)


.ENDS

 

[mikemara]

thanx, I still have problems I will let you know tomorrow it's 2:12 am.

thanx again

at page 1 I have simulated a triac and it did work well so I gess there is a problem here.

 

[mikemara]

ok, news: so I have tried all possible configurations that are listed here : https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/moc3022.pdf.

unfortunatly the ciruit does not converge or it just doesnt to what it seposed to do.....

I am posting here the circuit I am trying to simulate....I dont know why It is not working I still have not heard from FAIRCHILD.

 

[mikemara]

update : I had downloaded LTspice and made the simulation and I did work , no luck with orcad. When I hook up the circuit the right way it has convergence problems (in orcad).
here is a link : https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_9n0eOGDfdkODlhQllqVktyd1k/edit?usp=sharing (LTspice)