1. Welcome to our site! Electro Tech is an online community (with over 170,000 members) who enjoy talking about and building electronic circuits, projects and gadgets. To participate you need to register. Registration is free. Click here to register now.
    Dismiss Notice

Nodal Analysis with 5 nodes

Discussion in 'Homework Help' started by BartekKowalewicz, Jan 19, 2017.

  1. BartekKowalewicz

    BartekKowalewicz New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2017
    Messages:
    7
    Likes:
    0
    Hello.
    I need some help in solving a cicuit (https://s30.postimg.org/kd8fscdht/circuit.jpg). This circuit have to be solved by nodal analysis. I do not exactly know how to simplify this circuit to circuit that can be solved by a system of two equations. I will appreciate any help with that.
    With best regards,
    Bartek

    Or better still, as a Moderator, I can add the circuit directly into your post:

    5 node problem.png

    JimB
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 19, 2017
  2. JimB

    JimB Super Moderator Most Helpful Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2004
    Messages:
    6,324
    Likes:
    585
    Location:
    Peterhead, Scotland
    It makes things much easier if you post the circuit directly here on ETO rather than as a link to some other site.

    Like this:

    5 node problem.png

    JimB
     
  3. Ratchit

    Ratchit Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2008
    Messages:
    1,934
    Likes:
    78
    You don't need to simplify the circuit. You have four unknowns, so you need four equations, one for each node. The sum of the currents present in each branch connected to a node is zero according to the kirchoff current law (KCL). After you derive the equations, you can use a computer equation solver found on the web to get the voltages at each of the four nodes.

    Ratch
     
  4. dave

    Dave New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 1997
    Messages:
    -
    Likes:
    0


     
  5. BartekKowalewicz

    BartekKowalewicz New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2017
    Messages:
    7
    Likes:
    0

    Hi.
    Thank you for reply.
    The thing is that I need to simplify this circuit because I can't use any computer equation solver but I have to do that on "paper". I must obtain equestions in this form:
    equestion.png
    What I found is simplification with current sources but I don't know is that correct:
    simplification.png
    What can I do with branches with voltage sources and resistores?
     
  6. Ratchit

    Ratchit Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2008
    Messages:
    1,934
    Likes:
    78
    What do you want to do? What do you want to find out? You can convert any of the ports to a Thevenin or Norton equivalent and use only one equation. Whick port? If you merge the circuit, the nodes will disappear. Let us know what you want.

    Ratch
     
  7. BartekKowalewicz

    BartekKowalewicz New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2017
    Messages:
    7
    Likes:
    0
    I need to find out a value of R4 when I know that U35=86,34V. All datas for this circuit are in table below:
    data.jpg
     
  8. Ratchit

    Ratchit Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2008
    Messages:
    1,934
    Likes:
    78
    OK, let me get this straight. You want to find the value of R4 when the voltage at node 3 is 86.34 volts, assuming node 5 is designated ground, right? It looks like the circuit has three nodes. The voltage at one node is given. That leaves two unknown nodes and two equations, which is what the problem specifies. Once you know the voltages at nodes 2 and 4, you should be able to figure the current through R4 and determine the value by the definition of resistance E/I .

    Ratch
     
  9. BartekKowalewicz

    BartekKowalewicz New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2017
    Messages:
    7
    Likes:
    0
    Thanks for reply.
    So my equestions should look like that:
    equestions.png
    Am I correct?
     
  10. Ratchit

    Ratchit Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2008
    Messages:
    1,934
    Likes:
    78
    You did not answer my question. There are 3 unknowns, V2,V4,R4. Therefore, you also need a current equation for node 3. That makes three equations for three unknowns. I did not closely proofread your equations, but at first glance, the two equations appear correct.

    Ratch
     
  11. BartekKowalewicz

    BartekKowalewicz New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2017
    Messages:
    7
    Likes:
    0
    Yes, node 5 is designated ground. And in this case V3=V1=86,34V.
     
  12. Ratchit

    Ratchit Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2008
    Messages:
    1,934
    Likes:
    78
    OK, since you appear to have set up the equations correctly, go ahead and solve them after deriving the third equation. You can do it by hand if you want, but I am going to use a computer equation solver. I get V2= 23.004 , V4 = -34.506, and R4 = 12.1246 . If your answers are not the same, then we can compare our equations. Otherwise, your problem will be solved.

    Ratch
     
  13. BartekKowalewicz

    BartekKowalewicz New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2017
    Messages:
    7
    Likes:
    0
    I made a calculations on paper and my results are the same as your once.
    Thank you very much. I appreciate your help.

    This tread can be closed.
     
  14. BartekKowalewicz

    BartekKowalewicz New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2017
    Messages:
    7
    Likes:
    0
    Hi Ratchit,
    Can you look at this circuit which was solved with mesh analysis method:
    supermesh.jpg
    Is my solution ok?
     
  15. Ratchit

    Ratchit Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2008
    Messages:
    1,934
    Likes:
    78
    Sure, gladly. My advice is to forget the supernode and supermesh concept. When many textbooks run into a current source between loops or a voltage source between nodes, they go into a tizzy and adopt a topological tangle, coming up with a clunky clumsy concept that confuses and bemuses the problem solver. I like my way of looking at the problem better. Stick to the basics, I say.

    OK, here is the basic principle. Every voltage source is capable of carrying a current, and every current source is capable of supplying a voltage.

    Your example problem shows a current source between two loops. The circuit has six loops. Write the equations for the six loops using a term labeled something like Vj, designating the voltage across the current source J. So now you have six loop current unknowns, plus one current source voltage unknown Vj. That is seven unknowns and six equations. Add another equation i6 - i5 = J , and you seven equations and seven unknowns. Now you can solve the circuit without any reference to super whatever.

    You are invited to submit another problem so I can show you how ordinary methods work best.

    Ratch
     

Share This Page