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Need help wiring old GE single phase dual voltage motor

Discussion in 'Repairing Electronics' started by JonesPrecision, Mar 12, 2017.

  1. JonesPrecision

    JonesPrecision New Member

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    Got an old GE Triclad 110/220 single phase 1HP cap start motor. No wiring diagram but it's got 11 wires. All the same color, 10 wires are numbered 1 through 10 and the additional wire is blank. Found a wiring diagram but it barely moves and groans and actually reverses direction every time you try to start it. Tested under no load. At a loss here.

    I tested the caps, they are good. I know it was running 110v recently but I don't know how my buddy had it wired. Trying to wire it for 220v but I will take either. I can test with a DMM and post results here but I'm not sure where to go from here.

    tapatalk_1488930014984.jpeg image.jpeg
     
  2. cowboybob

    cowboybob Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    JP,

    If your Model# is 5KC184AG201C,

    After a ridiculously long search effort, I finally found this info at this site in post#11 (I'd suggest reading the thread in its entirety):

    upload_2017-3-12_17-28-13.png
    Note it for 220VAC.

    The extra wire (#11) is probably a "safety" ground lead BUT I can't say for sure. Best to check (with your DMM's OHMs function) to see if it is connected directly to the motor frame. If it is, connect it to the bare copper wire of your power source. Otherwise I'd wire nut and tape off its end and ignore it. Then ground the motor frame by some other means.
     
  3. JonesPrecision

    JonesPrecision New Member

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    Thanks. Still no dice.

    I took it apart. Leads 1-8 go into the motor. Leads 9, 10, and the unmarked one go to a "reversing" switch. I thought maybe it was stuck but it seems to work ok. I will post pics below. The blank wire is connected to #9. When the lever/arm is pushed it connects #9 to #10. As you can see in the pics there's a retractable ring on the shaft that can go in and out. Not sure what it does other that push the lever for wires 9, 10, and unmakred. I want to say when it gets up to speed it moves in and disengages the capacitors.

    The rest of the diagram makes sense with what I got on my DMM.

    #1 to #2 = 0.9
    #3 to #4 = 0.9
    #5 to #6 (to caps) = 3.1
    #7 to #8 (to caps) = 3.1

    I rewired everything and it made sense with the diagrams and the reading I got. I also bypassed the reversing switch just to see if I could get it to start. Still doesn't work. It spins freely, nothing seems to be grounding out, wires are in good shapes, caps seem fine. I can't for the life of me figure out why this won't work. It just sits there and pull about 30 amps and spins at maybe a half RPM. It doesn't groan as bad as before and giving it a push doesn't help.

    Using a 30 Amp double pole breaker from the box. It's getting 220v.
     
  4. dave

    Dave New Member

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  5. JonesPrecision

    JonesPrecision New Member

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    IMG_20170312_141858.jpg IMG_20170312_141652.jpg IMG_20170312_141644.jpg
     
  6. Les Jones

    Les Jones Well-Known Member

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    The switch that is marked reversing switch is not a reversing switch but the centrifugal switch. With the motor st0pped the switch should be closed but when it gets up to speed the contacts should open. This is to disconnect the start winding when the motor is up to speed. On the ring that slides on the shaft you should find it attached to some weights and springs that cause it to slide when the weights are flung out by the centrifugal force. The main windings seem to be between 1 & 2 and 3 & 4. They are connected in parallel for low voltage and series for high voltage. I think 5 & 6 and 7 & 8 are the start windings. I have not yet worked out where the capacitors are connected. Can you confirm the wires 9 & 10 ONLY connect to the centrifugal switch ? Can you also test if there is any connection between 1, 2, 3 , 4 and any of the wires 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 or 10 ? With the motor assembled is there almost zero resistance between 9 & 10 ?

    Les.
     
  7. JonesPrecision

    JonesPrecision New Member

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    The caps are wired 6 and 8 and go #6 to cap to #5 and #8 to cap to #7.

    There is little resistance between #9 and #10when assembled and yes they are only connected to the centrifugal switch along with the unmarked wire. The unmarked wire would connect with 9 once the clutch disengages, or engages....when the motor starts spinning.
     
  8. Les Jones

    Les Jones Well-Known Member

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    In post #6 I noticed that sometimes you use just numbers and other times a "#" followed by a number. Does one mean a wire number and the other a terminal number ? Is there a terminal block in the motor or do the 11 wires just come out to be connected in some other way ?
    GE_Motor.jpg

    The top schematic above is my understanding of how you have described the way it is wired at present. The bottom schematic is how I think it should be wired. As the information provided by CBB agrees with the information motor unless there some other connections between the wires I don't see how it could work if my understanding of your description is correct as there would be no power to the start windings. Can you test to see if there is any connection between the run side and the start side of the diagram.

    Les.
     
  9. JonesPrecision

    JonesPrecision New Member

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    I'm on the road right now but I will check when I get home shortly. You're diagram is exactly how it is wired currently and I agree with the way you think it should be wired. When I tested yesterday I didn't find any connection between the starting and running circuits but I will double check again.
     
  10. JonesPrecision

    JonesPrecision New Member

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    Les,

    You got it! That totally makes sense to me now too. Glad I learned something along the way. Really appreciate the help!

    Jeremy
     
  11. JonesPrecision

    JonesPrecision New Member

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    Les,

    I have another question. This motor is being used to pony start a 30HP 3-phase motor for a rotary phase converter. I know most 3 phase motors go CW when looking at the shaft but I'm feeding it with single phase to T1 and T2 and using T3 as my generated leg. What happens if it spins CCW? I have it on a 60 amp breaker (currently) for testing in my panel box and also have 100 amp time delay fuses before the NEMA 4 contactor. Is it just going to blow those fuses or is there other stuff I have to worry about?

    Jeremy
     
  12. Les Jones

    Les Jones Well-Known Member

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    Make sure it goes the correct way before mechanicaly connecting it to the 30HP motor. If there are no capacitors on the 30HP motor to produce phase shift it does not matter which way it rotates. The only thing you would have to do is swap two of the three phases over if the motors this converter are driving go the wrong way. If you do need to change the direction of rotation of the single phase motor then swap over the two dotted wires in the disgram so 10 goes to 1 and 5 goes to 4. By the way have you tried running the motor yet to see if my diagram is correct.

    Les
     
  13. JonesPrecision

    JonesPrecision New Member

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    Ok. I have it currently going clockwise (1HP motor) and no caps hooked up yet to the 30HP. I will be putting some run caps in to balance the phases eventually. It's going to power a CNC lathe.

    Yes I tried it and your diagram was spot on. Thanks again.
     
  14. Les Jones

    Les Jones Well-Known Member

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    If you are adding capacitors I think you should do this first to see which direction it wants to rotate. I might be a good idea to put something in series with the single phase supply to the 30HP motor to limit the current for testing. A number of large electric radiators in parallel for example. Do not use fan heaters unless you modify them so the fan is fed wit full mains voltage. I have never played with rotary phase converters. Maybe someone that has will post advice.

    Les.
     
  15. JonesPrecision

    JonesPrecision New Member

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    If I determine it goes a certain direction adding some run caps isn't going to change it, correct?

    I was thinking the same thing as far as finding a way to limit power going to it just to see if I could get it to start moving. Not sure I have any of those laying around. Could I just put in small fuses, say 30 amp time delay, while testing to protect it?

    I will post this up over on another forum as well that is pretty familiar with RPCs.
     
  16. JonesPrecision

    JonesPrecision New Member

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    I got it going. The guys on the other forum said since I'm running it single phase it will start in either direction and if I have the wrong direction to start it the other way. It kicked right on.

    Thanks for your help!
     

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