1. Welcome to our site! Electro Tech is an online community (with over 170,000 members) who enjoy talking about and building electronic circuits, projects and gadgets. To participate you need to register. Registration is free. Click here to register now.
    Dismiss Notice

Making Hydrogen

Discussion in 'Alternative Energy' started by Overclocked, Aug 11, 2006.

  1. Overclocked

    Overclocked Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2005
    Messages:
    783
    Likes:
    16
    Location:
    CT, USA
    Im a bit confused here. I know that Electrolysis will split water, but what comes out? I always assumed Hydrogen and Oxygen came out, but this website says else wise.

    http://www.energyquest.ca.gov/projects/split_h2o.html

    Chlorine Gas? I thought Chlorine and Oxygen where Both generated? All Other sites dont comfirm what this site is saying, So are they wrong? Or am I wrong?

    If so, What else can I use Besides Salt water? I also want to generate O2 along with Hydrogen. According to this site http://jchemed.chem.wisc.edu/jcesoft/CCA/CCA1/R1MAIN/CD1R1520.HTM
    I can use Sodium Hydroxide, which is in bleach and Dranio
     
  2. _nox_

    _nox_ New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2006
    Messages:
    158
    Likes:
    0
    2H2O + 2NaCl -> Cl2 + H2 + 2 NaOH ... i guess
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2006
  3. JoeElectron

    JoeElectron New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2006
    Messages:
    2
    Likes:
    0
    Their explination does not make much sense but the result is correct.
    Na+ + Cl- + H2O → Na+ + 1/2Cl2 + 1/2H2 + OH- (From http://www.webelements.com/webelements/elements/text/Cl/key.html)
    All I can suggest is trying other ionic compounds such as vinegar (acetic acid, CH3COOH), sulfric acid (H2SO4), ammonia (NH3), or any other substance that will dissolve in water. All you need is something to ionize to carry the current between the cathode and anode.
     
  4. dave

    Dave New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 1997
    Messages:
    -
    Likes:
    0


     
  5. theinfamousbob

    theinfamousbob Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    546
    Likes:
    5
    Location:
    Cleveland, Ohio, USA

    I'm pretty sure that only completly pure water won't do what you want...

    Ordinary tap water will do fine.

    http://powerlabs.org/waterarc.htm
     
  6. jbeng

    jbeng Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2004
    Messages:
    667
    Likes:
    10
    Location:
    Illinois, USA
    A nearby water purification plant uses electrolysis to produce sodium hypochlorite solution from salt water. They add the NaOCl to the water supply in small amounts to inhibit bacterial growth instead of using chlorine gas. Producing it themselves on-site is far less dangerous (on probably much more economical) than having to store and maintain liquid chlorine cylinders and such. Seems to me that if ammonia (NH3) would work sufficiently, it would be best. That is, for every water molecule you would get 2H+O and every ammonia molecule 3H+N. Of course, this would only be true if both molecules would actually electrolyze.
    The added salt (to make the water more conductive) was likely where they were getting the chlorine in the original equation. Some of the other equations posted seem reasonable, too.
    JB
     
  7. Marks256

    Marks256 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2006
    Messages:
    2,350
    Likes:
    9
    Location:
    Minnesota, USA
    If you want to make large amounts of hydrogen, then i would suggest taking some stainless steel wire/bolts, and then stick them in a jar(glass jar). Then fill the jar half full of Hydrogen Peroxide, or H3O, and the other half with regular tap water. Fill a plastic pop bottle full of water, and the put it upside down in the jar, just above the Anode and the Cathode(Make sure no air is in the bottles). I am not sure what side the hydrogen comes out of, i think it is the cathode. So, - = Hydrogen, and + = Oxygen. I have attached a diagram.
     

    Attached Files:

  8. Oznog

    Oznog Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2004
    Messages:
    2,879
    Likes:
    11
    Location:
    Austin, Tx
    Hydrogen peroxide is H2O2, NOT H30! It is no different than water except that oxygen breaks down out of it fairly easily then it's std electrolysis.

    Stainless is not a great electrode. It will dissolve into sludge and release chromium ions which are an environmental problem long after they're flushed down the drain. They're also a pretty high resistance and make a lot of heat. If you want to do a small experiment, it's not a real problem though, just add a bit of salt.

    Any real electrolyzer uses an extremely caustic alkaline solution and platinum-plated electrodes. Most do it at as high a temp as is practical because electrolysis is more electrically efficient there, it actually absorbs the thermal energy (requiring less electrical energy) to make hydrogen, constantly cooling the solution in the process. Thus you need a high temp heat source to keep the solution heated.
     
  9. Marks256

    Marks256 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2006
    Messages:
    2,350
    Likes:
    9
    Location:
    Minnesota, USA
    Yes, i am sorry, H3O is heavy water. Yes, H2O2 Is correct, so you will get equal amounts of each.

    Also, correct. I meant aluminum, and copper. I have used many combinations, and it has been a while, so my memory is kinda foggy. Copper corrodes fast, though. Aluminum works great, but after some time, it may need replacing. Salt is ok. If you plan on using salt, i would suggest using Distilled water, with some salt in it. It works very well! Sorry for the mix ups! It has been about 2 years since i played with this stuff. :)
     
  10. Oznog

    Oznog Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2004
    Messages:
    2,879
    Likes:
    11
    Location:
    Austin, Tx
    Still a miss. Heavy water is H2O made with the deuterium isotope of hydrogen.
    H3O is the hydronium ion that mades acid acid.
     
  11. jbeng

    jbeng Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2004
    Messages:
    667
    Likes:
    10
    Location:
    Illinois, USA
    Also known as D2O.
    JB
     
  12. Aphromann

    Aphromann New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    15
    Likes:
    0
    Would it not be easier to obtain the licenses to fill a tank of hydrogen and a tank of oxygen and created water? The energy generated is explosive and only leaves a drop of dew, very fun for recreational explosions, especialy if the catalyst is in a balloon.
     
  13. Overclocked

    Overclocked Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2005
    Messages:
    783
    Likes:
    16
    Location:
    CT, USA
    Is there a Limit On how much current the system will consume? How can I increase current going to the system? It seems like it Only Consumes around 1-2Amps. My PSU however, can supply 8 Amps if needed (Im using a computer PSU).

    Ive also heard I can increase voltage, I tired 5V and It went slow (too slow for me). When I bumped it up to 12V it went A lot faster. I have a 44V Transformer, Can I just use a Rectifier with it (To turn AC to DC), instead of creating a Regulator (with caps and such)?
     
  14. Marks256

    Marks256 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2006
    Messages:
    2,350
    Likes:
    9
    Location:
    Minnesota, USA
    Go for it. It shouldn't matter, it doesn't need to be regulated. The more power(with-in reason), the faster it will go. Don't get too high, or bad things may happen. I used to use 12vdc, but that got boring, so i started using 18vdc.
     
  15. Overclocked

    Overclocked Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2005
    Messages:
    783
    Likes:
    16
    Location:
    CT, USA
    Bad things? What kind of bad things?
     
  16. Marks256

    Marks256 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2006
    Messages:
    2,350
    Likes:
    9
    Location:
    Minnesota, USA
    I said bad things MAY happen. I don't know. Possible overheating, shorting out. You should be pretty safe at about 44volts. However, i wouldn't tempt fate with anything higher. :)
     
  17. Overclocked

    Overclocked Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2005
    Messages:
    783
    Likes:
    16
    Location:
    CT, USA
    Ive read people used 120V with a rectifier(169V pk), but its only good for 1Amp....But Im not about to test the limits-Yet.
     
  18. Marks256

    Marks256 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2006
    Messages:
    2,350
    Likes:
    9
    Location:
    Minnesota, USA
    Hmm, ok, try it. It is worth a shot. I have a question, if you run 120vac into a rectifier, will you get 120vdc out, or 60vdc out?
     
  19. Oznog

    Oznog Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2004
    Messages:
    2,879
    Likes:
    11
    Location:
    Austin, Tx
    Electrolysis requires only 1.2v. If the resistance of your system- only salt water electrolyte and stainless electrodes- the current will be low. Basically I=(Vin-1.2v)/R. The rest is dissipated as heat. If you're using more than 5v, there's a whole lot of heat being generated!
     
  20. Overclocked

    Overclocked Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2005
    Messages:
    783
    Likes:
    16
    Location:
    CT, USA
    No, 120V is RMS, Peak voltage is 169V. WHen you rectify it you will get 169V Peak, Its DC but its pulses.
     
  21. Marks256

    Marks256 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2006
    Messages:
    2,350
    Likes:
    9
    Location:
    Minnesota, USA
    What is RMS?
     

Share This Page