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Is There an Engineering Type: what is your experience?

Discussion in 'Members Lounge' started by spec, Feb 14, 2016.

  1. spec

    spec Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Over the years I have noticed that people from different professions tend to have similar characteristics. For example, engineering types, not just electrical/electronic, tend to have common characteristics that are displayed time and time again. We started discussing this topic on the 'SSD...WOW' thread, but thought it would be better as a new thread under its own heading.

    UPDATE 2016_02_18
    Since opening this post some members have said that they may not qualify as engineers per se. Just to clarify, engineer here has a very wide scope, the same as ETO in fact. So everyone who is associated with engineering, or even is just interested in engineering, or is currently studying engineering is invited to contribute. Engineering Managers, Test Engineers, Service Engineers, Military Technicians, Reliability Engineers, Safety Engineers, Insapectors are all engineers in their own field.

    Also the thread scope has been widened to include members experiences that may have influenced their outlook.

    So here goes:

    UPDATED 2016_02_21
    It would be great if you could post a Y (Yes) or N (No) after each topic in the ORIGINAL LIST as Matt (DerStrom8) is considering doing a graph showing the distribution of Eng characteristics. The list is in no particular order:

    ORIGINAL LIST
    (01) Some sleep problems, especially when a particular job is not going well:
    (02) Worrier:
    (03) Hay-fever and general allergies. Alopecia. Digestive problems:
    (04) Migraine:
    (05) Left handed:
    (06) Dyslexic:
    (07) Difficult spelling:
    (08) Uneasy punctuation and grammar:
    (09) Difficult second languages:
    (10) Pedantic or perhaps particular is a better word:
    (11) Think that females are generally logical and that all males are logical:
    (12) Hoarder:
    (13) Fond of animals, especially cats:
    (14) Inquisitive:
    (15) Industrious:
    (16) Inventive:
    (17) Independent:
    (18) Self motivated:
    (19) Good sense of humor:
    (20) Have electronics bench/workshop at home:
    (21) Quiet and considered to be different:
    (22) Limited emotion:
    (23) Strong willed:
    (24) Imaginative:
    (25) Illegible handwriting:
    (26) Bitter about being overlooked/ falsely wronged by management:
    (27) Great satisfaction from creating something:
    (28) Enjoy own company:


    I will try to update the following list of possible engineer characteristics as new areas are suggested.

    CONTINUOUSLY UPDATED LIST
    (01) Some sleep problems, especially when a particular job is not going well:
    (02) Worrier:
    (03) Hay-fever and general allergies. Alopecia. Digestive problems:
    (04) Migraine:
    (05) Left handed (2016_02_21 please ignore this item- it is no longer considered relevant. Thanks MrAl and DerStrom8)
    (06) Dyslexic:
    (07) Difficult spelling:
    (08) Uneasy punctuation and grammar:
    (09) Difficult second language (2016_02_21 Item deleted. Please ignore. Thanks Mikebits)
    (10) Pedantic or perhaps particular is a better word:
    (11) Think that females are generally logical and that all males are logical:
    (12) Hoarder:
    (13) Fond of animals, especially cats:
    (14) Inquisitive:
    (15) Industrious:
    (16) Inventive:
    (17) Independent:
    (18) Self motivated:
    (19) Strong sense of humor:
    (20) Have electronics bench/workshop at home:
    (21.1) Quiet:
    (21.2) Considered to be different:
    (22) Limited emotion:
    (23) Strong willed:
    (24) Imaginative:
    (25) Illegible handwriting: (2016_02_21 Item deleted. Please ignore)
    (26) Bitter about being overlooked/ falsely wronged by management:
    (27) Great satisfaction from creating something:
    (28) Enjoy own company:
    (29) Difficult English (or your natural language) composition: (2016_02_21 New addition)
    (30) Physically active, sporty: (2016_02_21 New item. Thanks granddad)
    (31) Analytical (2016_02_21 New addition: Thanks Little Ghostman)
    (32) Difficulty dealing with illogical people: (2016_02_21 Added)
    (33) Heredity- does engineering run in your family lines: (2016_02_21 Added. Thanks strantor)

    Here are a few links that may be of interest (again in no particular order):
    (1) http://www.livescience.com/32935-whats-the-difference-between-the-right-brain-and-left-brain.html
    (2) http://facts.randomhistory.com/facts-about-left-handedness.html
    (3) http://www.livescience.com/32935-whats-the-difference-between-the-right-brain-and-left-brain.html
    (4) From strantor (very revealing): https://www.personalitymax.com/personality-types/intp-engineer
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2016
  2. spec

    spec Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Hi strantor,

    I have noticed that engineering types tend to have certain characteristics that crop up time and time again:

    (1) Some sleep problems, especially when a particular job is not going well.
    (2) Worrier
    (3) Hay-fever and general allergies. Alopecia. Digestive problems.
    (4) Migraine
    (5) Left handed
    (6) Dyslexic
    (7) Difficult spelling
    (8) Uneasy punctuation and grammar
    (9) Difficult second languages
    (10) Pedantic or perhaps particular is a better word
    (11) Think that females are also logical. Think that all males are logical. Difficulty dealing with illogical people.
    (12) Hoarder
    (13) Love of animals, especially cats
    (14) Inquisitive
    (15) Industrious
    (16) Inventive
    (17) Independent
    (18) Self motivated
    (19) Good sense of humor

    Have I missed any?
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2016
  3. atferrari

    atferrari Well-Known Member

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    My sole post in SSD...WOW:

    How about the bench? (With Bob Pease and Jim Williams in mind).
     
  4. dave

    Dave New Member

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  5. spec

    spec Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Yes, indeed- The Bench- missed that one.

    I had to laugh: my Son's fiance was complaining the other day that he is often messing with computer bits in the bedroom when she is trying to get some sleep (they only have a couple of rooms at the moment because their house is being refurbished). I didn't tell her that it is probably in the genes- my wife has been long suffering. I will tell my Son's fiance after the wedding in September when she can't change her mind about getting married. :D
     
  6. strantor

    strantor Active Member

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    Here, I'll self-identify, and re-weight the list as it applies to me:
    (14) Inquisitive
    (17) Independent / (18) Self motivated
    (16) Inventive
    (xx) Practical (function over fashion)
    (12) Horder
    (xx) Small spectrum of emotion
    (4) Migraine
    (xx) Quiet, and Odd apparently, to others
    (1) Some sleep problems, ALWAYS
    (xx) strong willed
    (15) Industrious
    (3) Digestive problems.
    (19) Good sense of humor
    (10) Pedantic or perhaps particular is a better word
    (11) Think that females (or other people in general) are also logical
    (2) Worrier

    Not applicable:
    (13) Love of animals, especially cats
    (3) Hay-fever and general allergies. Alopecia.
    (5) Left handed
    (6) Dyslexic
    (7) Difficult spelling
    (8) Uneasy punctuation and grammar
    (9) Difficult second languages
     
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  7. spec

    spec Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Quite a high correlation. It would not be that high for the average fella in the street. For a start he would probably be unaware of many of the areas.

    (16) (xx) Excellent- very perceptive. That is an important common characteristic of engineering types. I bet many of the B/S adverts in the media pass you by. They do me.
    (12) (xx) Or do you mean level-headed and not panic in adversity.
    (1) (xx) I suspect you are too modest and self depreciating- I see no sign of quietness or oddness, going by your posts that is.
    (11) Females, in general, are not logical and find it impossible to be objective. A good point about assuming men are logical, because with males there is a wide range of types.

    Judging by your not applicables, you seem to have the art side of your brain developed in addition to the spatial side which is a prerequisite for engineers, .

    ( I don't really know much about all this but have read a couple of books and have been around for a long time :wideyed:)
     
  8. strantor

    strantor Active Member

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    Yes. I intentionally don't watch any media that isn't pre-recorded, so that I may skip the commercials.
    Until Google and their ilk recently got so good at tracking my every keystroke, I was also impervious to online ads. But recently I have found myself clicking on banner ads because they somehow found (and want to sell) what I was looking for the other day, when not even I could find it.
    ehhh... no. Level headed, yes, but that's just a symptom in my case. What I really mean (...trying not to sound like Dexter here...) generally experiencing emotions across the board to a lesser extent than most people do. I don't know, maybe it's just me and I'm fooling myself trying to paint it onto all of us, but I think that I am better at communicating with machines than people because my thoughts are more robotic. I think (again maybe fooling myself) that most of us "engineering types" are probably alike in that regard.

    ^^ I typed that up yesterday. Ran out of free time and left my reply unfinished.
    I gave it more thought over the evening and while laying in bed, and came to a different conclusion.
    What follows was typed up just now:

    I don't hang out with a lot of "Engineering types." I am the sole member of the "Engineering Department" at the company where I work. At the place I worked before, I was doing engineering work in the field, by myself. Before that I was self employed, designing small systems. Before that I was a machine maintenance Tech, in a role that I was given leeway to do some design work; that job was when/where I first got the opportunity to add "in a professional capacity" to the end of "Enjoys: spending time with family, Engineering..." And the time I spent in college was only freshman year, so I was never part of the pot that got boiled down til only "engineering types" were left. I guess I hadn't consciously realized that until now; Everything I know about Engineers is based either on myself or some stereotype that I've gleaned from non engineering types over the years.

    I've been trying to identify with people my whole life. I feel different, too often unable to relate to people around me. I cannot understand people when they are not logical. It isn't only women who take nonsensical positions on things because they are guided by emotion. Far too often I feel like an adult forced to sit through the 6th grade over and over again every year. Not to boast, but I thought that was because I was "smarter" than everyone around me; because I was an "engineering type." I guess I've sought out these forums trying to find somewhere I belong.

    For years I have assumed that by hanging out in these online electronics forums, I was in the presence of "like minds;" that most of the members are Engineers, advanced technicians, or weekend warrior mad scientists - all "engineering types." But now I think maybe that's not actually the case; many who come here are students or regular non-robotic-brained people who just want to accomplish a single project and then move on. You've probably heard of the 90-9-1 Rule. If that rule holds true, and If this site attracts "engineering types" (mainly, but not exclusively) but only 1% of them contribute, then the people who I am identifying with are much more strongly correlated as "online fora addicts" than they are as "engineering types."

    So my EDD (Like ADD - Emotional Deficit Disorder - I just made that up) probably has nothing to do with my chosen occupation is probably something I should stop projecting on the rest of the membership here.

    I wouldn't say I'm self-deprecating; I'd say I'm a realist. But I realize that's what a self-deprecating person would say. You haven't seen me in real life; I'm a lot different there. Here on the forum I'm a faceless entity whose words are inconsequential so I let them out in whatever order I want to. In real life, where every word, every gesture, every glance has its own meaning and its own effect on the outcome of every scenario, I take a more calculated approach. It takes me several weeks to become comfortable around someone new; To stop being quiet. I suppose because that's how long it takes me to "learn" them; to build a profile, a template for them. To know what words to say in what order, and with what expression on my face, so as to convince them that I am "like them" so that they won't direct negative emotional energy at me.
    I guess. I don't consider myself an "artsy" person; I don't "get" art and most music sounds like crap to me. But when I have made "art" before, others have praised it.

    Well I've given you plenty of material here to psychoanalyze me, Sorry for dumping on your thread :eek:. I generally do not buy into most of the "personality profile" tests and whatnot, but when I read this, I was in awe. That describes me better than I could ever describe myself.
     
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  9. granddad

    granddad Active Member

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    Just 3 Curious >10, Creative >20 , Imaginative >18 ( sadly missing in the iPad generation)


    ( spec's experiment in time travel )
     
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  10. JimB

    JimB Super Moderator Most Helpful Member

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    This is how JimB is configured:

    (1) Some sleep problems, Not really, but definitely a night person.
    (2) Worrier Not much
    (3) Hay-fever and general allergies. Had hay fever quite bad in my 30s and 40s, not so much now.
    (4) Migraine Had weird side of the head headaches which would last for two days. One doctor said that it may be migraine. Not had the problem for years.
    (5) Left handed No
    (6) Dyslexic No
    (7) Difficult spelling No
    (8) Uneasy punctuation and grammar No
    (9) Difficult second languages No. Fairly good at French and can get by quite well in German, and raise a wry smile (HeHe, Gringo) in Spanish speaking peoples.
    (10) Pedantic or perhaps particular is a better word Yes.
    (11) Think that females are also logical Some of them, not many.
    (12) Hoarder Yes
    (13) Love of animals, especially cats Yes. Cats and birds.
    (14) Inquisitive Yes
    (15) Industrious Yes
    (16) Inventive Yes
    (17) Independent Yes, prefer to be on my own
    (18) Self motivated Yes
    (19) Good sense of humour Yes

    Now you know all my personality defects.

    JimB
     
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  11. strantor

    strantor Active Member

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    Wow, we've managed to preserve original post structure. Congrats, team win.

    Anyway, if we're to consider this a joint venture thread, we should state what we hope to get out of it.

    I'd like:

    #1: To address the title question : Is there an engineering type?

    I've googled it and it seems that when the question is worded such as "What personality traits do I need to have to be a Engineer?," people are quick to reply that there is no defined personality type and Engineers personalities are all over the place [EXAMPLE]. But when it is worded such as "what personality traits do most engineers possess?," there is a trend in the answers.


    #2: To address the idea that "engineering types" (should their existence be agreed upon) might experience emotion to a lower extent than non-engineering types. I have already identified that I do (think) that I experience less emotion than most people, and I am curious if I might have some kind of disorder or if this is normal.

    #3: I have more ideas/questions about the implications of an "engineering type" that I'd like to discuss, if it doesn't derail the discussion too much from the original goals. I guess we'll cross that bridge when we come to it, and I might/might not need to create another thread.
     
  12. spec

    spec Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Thanks Jim,

    Quite a positive set of characteristics and not many negatives. Interesting about hay fever- I had exactly the same thing, but it flares up from time to time. There is a particular type of flower/greenery that florists use and that causes me big problems.

    A few topics are missing from my first list:
    (1) Bench addict - seems like yes for you judging by your posts
    (2) Not influenced by BS, especially by adverts/sales people.
    (3) Think that males are logical
    (4) Social compatibility (how do you get on with people in general, especially people who hold untenable views, or are generally idiots)

    spec
     
  13. strantor

    strantor Active Member

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    1. yes
    2. Generally not. However I can be duped by a talented con, if what he says sounds logical on the outset. I don't have a knack for "reading people."
    3. Not always
    4. I haven't found a good way to deal with idiots. I simply disregard them, until I'm forced to work with them and their idiocy threatens the success of our work. Then I usually require micromanagement on my part, or my focus turns from the work at hand to attacking the idiot.
     
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  14. spec

    spec Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Hi Grandad,

    Suggest that:
    Curious is covered by Inquisitive
    Creative is covered by Inventive
    Imaginative is sort of covered by inventive too

    What do you think?

    spec
     
  15. spec

    spec Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Yes it is amazing that we managed to reconstruct the thread here- well done to all those concerned :happy:

    I see this as a general chat type thread where all aspects of the so called engineering character are discussed, so go for it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2016
  16. spec

    spec Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Your #(4) is a big one. It relates to the wider issue of how to interface with people. Here is my story:

    When I was about 5, I knew that I thought differently to the other kids. They said things like, The British Justice System is the best in the world. They have never hung an innocent person. I though well how would they know. This logical approach caused me no end of problems, but I soon came to realise that the world is not logical, and nether are people. The normal approach, by some non-logical people, particularly females, when their views are question is to immediately resort to personal attacks to get out of answering the question. You can see this on ETO from time to time.

    So how to deal with this: Treat people differently. I don't agree with a word that my long time mate says, but we get on fine, because he doesn't get aggressive if I disagree with him if it becomes necessary, but generally I don't disagree.

    Other mates are engineers and with a few exceptions the ones I know are fairly logical and can discuss most topics logically, so we have some in depth discussions.

    Other people although they might have nice personas, are completely incapable of a logical approach. For those people the conversation is restricted to, the weather, sport and that kind of thing.

    Then there is the type who simply cannot stop talking about themselves, females especially fall into this category. The only approach here is to nod in agreement and let them get on with it.

    There are many other types- the very shy, the aggressive, the ill, etc etc.

    The only problem is when someone who is an idiot has control over you in some area- it may be a wife, doctor, solicitor, boss at work. I have never satisfactorily figured what to do in those circumstances, except where possible to cut and run.

    What have I started with this thread? :woot:
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2016
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  17. strantor

    strantor Active Member

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    Yes, that's the crux. I haven't figured it out either. Most people, when their boss is an idiot, simply throw their hands up and say "yes sir." Later, among colleagues, they will say something like "Well if that's what he wants, I'll just do what he says. Later when it blows up in his face, I'll say 'told-ya-so'." - I cannot make my mind work like this. I know it's best that when you have a disagreement, to take that up in private, but I've called out my boss on numerous occasions in meetings when he tried to take the matter into the realm of stupid. So far I haven't gotten fired. Actually I think my boss has come to appreciate me for that. He knows I won't just "go along" with stupid, and I'm not afraid to call a spade a spade, even to him. But it has resulted in some inter-office sanctions against me, especially with regards to my email practices. He has to "filter" my emails which leave the office; I've pissed in too many people's wheaties too high up the chain. I end up causing problems for him in that regard.

    I'm glad you brought up control. This is one of the questions I had in mind to address...
    If you consider yourself an "engineering type," where do you stand on control/domination?
    Are you someone's boss? Do you enjoy managing people? Are you good at it?

    I absolutely hate managing people. I climbed the ranks in the military to the point I was managing a division of 9 guys, and I was the saddest, most overworked poor soul on the boat. I couldn't abandon the repeatedly self evident truth "if you want it done right, do it yourself." I was promoted based on technical competency, into a role requiring a totally different skill set, and placed in charge of a bunch of technically incompetent nincompoops. My choices were either trust them to do work I knew that they would screw up, and take the heat for their failure, or do the work myself and take the heat for not utilizing the manpower provided to me.

    The old maxim "Lead, follow, or get out of my way" does not apply to me. When I'm functioning optimally, I'm not leading or following, and I'm not in anybody's way. I'm off the single-file path, blazing my own trail. I'm doing work that nobody had to tell me needed to be done, solving problems that nobody even knew existed, paving the way for a team win out of paving stones that nobody even realizes that they're walking on. When the team win comes, I am perfectly happy just to get an acknowledgement that it couldn't have been done without me, even if the extent to which that's true isn't known by anyone but me.

    If there's anything I hate more than telling other people what to do, it's being told what to do. The Military taught me by brute force how to cope with it, but I still hate it with a passion.
     
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  18. spec

    spec Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    WOW, now that is interesting and pretty much reflects the position most people find themselves, especially these days with all this management stuff that is creeping in (BS). It seems that there are two very broad types of people, not only in the work space but also life generally:

    (1) Self orientated
    (2) Product orientated

    The (1) person has little connection with the product, (item, or service) and is only motivated by progressing his own career. This is not as bad as it sounds, because in a good organization, there should be no conflict between self and product. The problems arise when that is not the case.

    The (2) person recognizes that the only thing that makes the company profitable is the product & by inference the customer. Once again this only holds if the customer has a good organization. This type of person normally has an innate interest in the product and also insists on things being done right. In my case, if I see something that is not designed properly, for some reason, it annoys me. And if, by mistake, I buy something that is not designed properly it annoys me intensely.
     
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  19. granddad

    granddad Active Member

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    I guess ( he said checking his thesaurus ) , I particularly like 'Creative' I did a foundation course at a local art college when I retired (as a mature student, they waived any fee just to have me !) , only one or two students had what you could call a fertile imagination... we did Photography, painting , printing, model making , was due to do ceramics and fabrics but some As**** burnt the school down.... lost over a years work...was never the same.... dropped out ... I digress...
    However my experience was 30yrs in Field Engineering, I cannot spell for toffe , struggle with small talk , play the keyboard ... ( some may say I don't ). But give me something broken I am your man....
     
  20. spec

    spec Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Yes,

    Creative is a key attribute of engineering types, and it is also a fundamental attribute of the left brainers (or is it right- must look it up) too.
    From what you say, you have many of the positive features, and the very common spelling thing. As for small talk, I bet you have that wrong. It is very easy, especially with analytical types to underestimate their social skills. One big secret is to listen. I was extremely shy at one time, as was a chap I know who is a life-and-soul of the party type now. I used to be petrified of talking on the phone at one time. Even now I get into company where I feel uncomfortable, but perhaps most people do.

    This is an area where females excel- they have fantastic communication skills. But then they have their built-in advantage: more or less whatever they do and say, they look good and sound good. :D

    spec
     
  21. strantor

    strantor Active Member

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    I never realized there was a "spelling thing" among "engineering types." - I learn something new every day (gotta be careful with that saying from now on; seems it started this whole episode)

    I do notice it when poring through source code however, from sites like github and the like. I had attributed it to language barrier, but I suppose it could be a manifestation of the "spelling thing" among Software Engineers.

    It seems like it would dovetail nicely with the "handwriting thing;" while stereotypically attributed to Medical Doctors, illegible handwriting might be another attribute of "engineering types." I know personally, sometimes I cannot read my own. Especially when it's something I scrawled in crayon on a greasy napkin in my lap while driving. I hate it when epiphanies come to me from behind the wheel. It's like an explosion of neural activity; a puff of idea confetti that must be collected mid-air, lest some of it settle in unknown locations and be lost forever. But, I think most of my epiphanies do come while driving. I have over an hour drive to and from work; it's the only time I'm left alone to my thoughts while not sleeping, or falling asleep.
     
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