1. Welcome to our site! Electro Tech is an online community (with over 170,000 members) who enjoy talking about and building electronic circuits, projects and gadgets. To participate you need to register. Registration is free. Click here to register now.
    Dismiss Notice

Is black hole just massive particle ?

Discussion in 'Members Lounge' started by vlad777, Nov 22, 2010.

  1. vlad777

    vlad777 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2008
    Messages:
    418
    Likes:
    8
    As we know in white dwarfs counter force to gravity
    is pressure that comes from pauli exclusion principle.
    There can't be two electrons with same spin on same energy level.
    But when mass is larger we get neutron stars.
    So now electrons and protons are degenerated to neutrons but now
    pauli exclusion principle works for neutrons so again we have pressure.

    So at even higher mass everything gets degenerated to single particle
    with huge mass ?
     
  2. MrAl

    MrAl Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2008
    Messages:
    11,029
    Likes:
    951
    Location:
    NJ
    Hello,

    Black holes are very mysterious creatures even in this seemingly advanced day and age. Inside a black hole time stands still and space disappears, but information remains intact. It's usually referred to as a "singularity" which means it is a single point in space (from our observation point) which would have no height, width, or length. What really happens inside one though nobody really knows for sure yet, and may never know. We dont have much experience with things that "exist" in places where there is no time and no space so it's very hard to figure out what is going on. It could be that the laws of (current) physics just dont hold under that kind of influence, and that would mean we would need a whole new set of rules to understand it completely.

    There is one theory out there that suggests that when something enters into a black hole it actually enters into a dual existence where it exists both inside the black hole and also spread across the entire event horizon. That says a lot about just how mysterious these things really are! To look at it another way then everything we know of changes dramatically so it's very hard if not impossible to relate what happens to our current understanding of the universe, so we might forget about particles altogether at that point.

    The LHC may reveal some interesting facts about black holes that may shed some new light on the subject, but we'll have to wait to find out just like with the Higgs particle...for now it's just a waiting game.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2010
  3. killivolt

    killivolt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2008
    Messages:
    3,212
    Likes:
    121
    Location:
    U.S.
    I was thinking about the same thing.

    But, I really enjoyed the read.

    :eloquent:......................(Golf Clap):)

    Edit: I also enjoyed the Algebra / Solution. hehehehe
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2010
  4. dave

    Dave New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 1997
    Messages:
    -
    Likes:
    0


     
  5. tytower

    tytower Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2006
    Messages:
    406
    Likes:
    13
    Location:
    Caloundra

    http://www.latimes.com/news/science/la-sci-black-holes-20111206,0,3092833.story

    Time to get real fellas
    You don't go through a black hole ,you squash into it
    Time is exactly the same as elsewhere not that you will need to know.
    The rest is quantum bunkum.
    You know, quantum mechanics, where the probability that black is white is 99% !
     
  6. vlad777

    vlad777 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2008
    Messages:
    418
    Likes:
    8
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-16178112

    Black hole in the center of our galaxy will eat huge gas cloud.
    Quasars are feeding supermassive black holes, so I wander what will our night sky look like in 2013?

    Also (back to topic), I found out that in string theory black hole is just one big string.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2011
  7. Pommie

    Pommie Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2005
    Messages:
    10,022
    Likes:
    317
    Location:
    Brisbane Australia
    Can anyone explain why a black hole sucks things in and our sun doesn't? It's just a larger mass and so things should orbit it exactly the same as our sun.

    Confused,

    Mike.
     
  8. vlad777

    vlad777 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2008
    Messages:
    418
    Likes:
    8
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2011
  9. 3v0

    3v0 Coop Build Coordinator Forum Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2006
    Messages:
    9,404
    Likes:
    227
    Location:
    OKLAHOMA USA
    Exactly the same mechanism, gravity.

    There are two types of black holes. Actively feeding and inactive. Once they suck up everything within reach active ones become inactive.
     
  10. vlad777

    vlad777 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2008
    Messages:
    418
    Likes:
    8
    By mechanism I meant decaying orbit, collision course or (could it be) something else.
     
  11. Sceadwian

    Sceadwian Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2006
    Messages:
    14,047
    Likes:
    141
    Location:
    Rochester, US
    Our sun does suck stuff into it all the time Pommie, the difference between a black hole and our sun is the size. The smallest known black hole is 3 times the mass of our sun, right at the theoretical limit of a black hole being able to exist, the largest one currently known has an equivalent mass of 18billion sols, our sun would and will suck up quiet a bit before it dies, I believe when the son reaches the end of it's life cycle and the internal pressures get lower all of the inner planets will be destroyed as it grows, the mass isn't high enough to draw in larger volumes of matter from a great distance like a black hole.
     
  12. 3v0

    3v0 Coop Build Coordinator Forum Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2006
    Messages:
    9,404
    Likes:
    227
    Location:
    OKLAHOMA USA
    All these are still driven by one thing, gravity.
     
  13. tytower

    tytower Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2006
    Messages:
    406
    Likes:
    13
    Location:
    Caloundra
    Nah - They are always active . Material is always falling into them . If there is no material to fall in then the entire universe will have been sucked into the largest black mass that exists and I am intrigued by what would happen then. However we don't know and won't ever find out , despite the posers that pop up to tell you how it really is .
     
  14. rudolphramalhosa

    rudolphramalhosa New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2011
    Messages:
    2
    Likes:
    0
    black holes are like tornados just that they in space. nature teaches everything on earth, but have and open mind that its not that much diffrent in space thats why it looks so complicated but first learn from your surroundings and you would be quit surprised how things are similar in space as it is on earth for example put a oxygen container in deep sea and container will implode, put a oxygen container in space and it will explode ,if there is an action then there is a reaction, well black holes are similar to tornados, a tornado shreads everything in its path and a black hole splits light particels apart . the universe has its own weather and its just as unpredicble as on earth. unfortunatly with our enviroment being destroyed there will be nothing to learn from it.
     
  15. Sceadwian

    Sceadwian Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2006
    Messages:
    14,047
    Likes:
    141
    Location:
    Rochester, US
    Sorry tytower that is absolutely incorrect, material is always falling towards a black hole, the gravity is always there, there is however not always matter nearby for it to consume, black holes are not only at the Galactic center or in solar systems, they can exist pretty much anywhere, including traveling through interstellar medium, which contains so little material there's no way to detect them other than gravitational lensing and you have to know exactly where one is to observe even that; these are 'true' black holes as we can't detect them outside of theoretically, no practical method has been used to discover inactive black holes that I'm aware of.

    Active black holes are easy to spot, they suck up matter and spew out energy in a myriad number of ways.
     
  16. Sceadwian

    Sceadwian Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2006
    Messages:
    14,047
    Likes:
    141
    Location:
    Rochester, US
    They're tornadoes if you'r medium is space time instead of air!
     
  17. tytower

    tytower Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2006
    Messages:
    406
    Likes:
    13
    Location:
    Caloundra
    Actually I think there is a claim of one 20 Billion times our suns mass recently , I'll find it and post a link.. I don't believe "a sun reaches the end of its life cycle". various collisions with other masses in the universe will either increase its size or it will increase the size of the object it collides with. I don't believe there would be a size limit .
    http://www.latimes.com/news/science/la-sci-black-holes-20111206,0,3092833.story

    Any black mass would attract anything and I do not know if there is a spherical distance limit on this . Our solar system is being held in orbit around our galaxie's black mass. Our Galaxie is colliding with various clouds and other Galaxies right now but we are not always going to be aware of it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2011
  18. tytower

    tytower Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2006
    Messages:
    406
    Likes:
    13
    Location:
    Caloundra
    This from the page above
    You need to revise your thinking on these . It has all changed recently
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2011
  19. 3v0

    3v0 Coop Build Coordinator Forum Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2006
    Messages:
    9,404
    Likes:
    227
    Location:
    OKLAHOMA USA
    I should know better then to give a serious answer in this thread.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. rudolphramalhosa

    rudolphramalhosa New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2011
    Messages:
    2
    Likes:
    0
    the point to this theory is ive seen a tv documentery on black holes and all they speek about what does it do to light and other gasses, they say light gets trapped but where does it go so the obveous it would be nowhere, if our space consists of gasses and particels and atoms of all sort spreaded out in the universe then space is like chemistry add a little bit of this with that and you get a compound , just as our earth is made including us of course but you can split them apart again to thier original form dont you a agree cause if light consists of verious atoms to burn then those atoms can be split and what a better way to do it, a black hole. i do believe that a black hole has an enormass amount energy that we dont understand but because its in the vaccum of space it makes it quite possible to do all sorts of things that we dont know yet .
     
  21. tytower

    tytower Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2006
    Messages:
    406
    Likes:
    13
    Location:
    Caloundra
    yep next time perhaps common sense rather than fanciful scientific speculation and classification

    Wherever they are, they are attracting matter.
    Whatever state they are in they are attracting matter
    From one atom attracting another,to a planet with debris , to a sun such as ours to a mass 20 Billions times larger they are all attracting matter no matter (excuse the pun ) where they are or what speed they travel at.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2011

Share This Page