ICD2 or the PicKit2

[usif]

First, I just want to acknowledge the fact that this question has probably been asked to death at these forums. I have searched around and spyed out similar topics but unfortunately none have ceased to satisfy all my questions.

Lately I have wanted to shift into the realm of Micro-controllers and have opted for the PIC's rather than the AVR. But I get confused when it comes to picking a programmer.

My needs in a programmer is to be able to use MPLab in its entirety (Thus not just editing of code and converting it to a .hex, and using third party software to programme my PIC). I have researched and finally decided to go for either an ICD2 or Pickit2 clone.

Tl;dr version (too long; didnt read)

Questions:

The Pickit2 is also capable of ICSP and ICD - Then what advantages does ICD2 have over it? Something in software or compatibility?

What is needed for ICSP? (USB, Rj12, RJ12 to 6 pin head, ICD2/PicKit2)

Is it worth purchasing an ICD2/PicKit2 clone over the original, not because of the price factor but also because they come with ZIF moudules?

I have searched on ebay and found these:

**broken link removed**
(Does this one come with everything needed to do ICSP)

**broken link removed**

I assume this one has the full package for ICSP?

Thanks in advance

 

[futz]

I have researched and finally decided to go for either an ICD2 or Pickit2 clone.

First choice, genuine PICkit 2 or clone (Blueroom Electronics Junebug). I have one of each.

Second choice, Blueroom Electronics **broken link removed** with **broken link removed** USB addon board (ICD2 compatible). As fast as the PICkit 2.

Third choice, one of each. Every once in a while I run into the odd chip that isn't well (or at all) supported by the PICkit 2 (yet) and have a need for the Inchworm+/Unicorn. It's good to have more than one type of programmer/debugger.

 

[3v0]

1 2nd what Futz said. The programmers from blueroom are nice in that you can get help here. The engineer who designed them is a member.

 

[usif]

I am interested in the Junebug, however I have a very stupid question that I need to ask: Where is the PIC You want to program inserted? I have looked at the manual and it seems the PIC18F2550 and PIC18F1320 have taken all the MCU places. Do we replace on of ours with the PIC18F1320? Or must we purchase a Firefly kit?

 

[blueroomelectronics]

The onboard 18F1320 can be disconnected from the programmer by setting DIP 1,2,3 switches off. The target PIC can then be controlled by the ICD (2x5) connector and a short ribbon cable. The lines are double run so they are breadboard friendly.

 

[usif]

The onboard 18F1320 can be disconnected from the programmer by setting DIP 1,2,3 switches off. The target PIC can then be controlled by the ICD (2x5) connector and a short ribbon cable. The lines are double run so they are breadboard friendly.

Now I understand, but what do you mean "The lines are double run so they are breadboard friendly"?

Also, is the fact that the Junebug cannot program 3.3V PIC's a hassle? Generally I assume 90% of the time we use 5V PIC's

Can you also recommend a good beginner PIC - I want 2 or 3 ADC outputs

 

[blueroomelectronics]

It can program some 3.3V PICs but can't supply power to them. The 18F1320 is an excellent starters PIC and has 8 multiplexed A/D inputs.
Odd and even lines are duplicates so when plugging the cable into a breadboard (with a 2x5 adapter) I'll see if I can find a photo. Futz built one for his projects.

 

[futz]

Odd and even lines are duplicates so when plugging the cable into a breadboard (with a 2x5 adapter) I'll see if I can find a photo. Futz built one for his projects.

What Bill means is that on the ends of the programming/debugging cable the ribbon wires are connected so that each aligned pair of pins are connected together, so they can be easily plugged into a breadboard without having to straddle the center divider. Like this:

**broken link removed**


In use, the programming cable looks like this:

**broken link removed**


The breadboard adapter is made by soldering together 10 pins of 2-row header and a 2x5 shrouded male IDC connector, like this:

**broken link removed**


An Atmel AVR 2x3 cable, where they use all 6 pins, isn't duplicated like the above connectors and has to straddle the center divider like in **broken link removed** and this picture. It's a lot of extra work to do:

**broken link removed**

 

[usif]

Okay, I think you guys have subsequently made up my mind for me!

Heres what I understand:

The Junebug is an all-in-one PicKit2 clone+tutor (meaning that I can test things out, more or less as a developemnt board). It supports ICSP (so i can program the PIC while its in the target circuit) through 2X5 adapters however I must first disable the 18f1320.

3.3V PIC can be programmed, but I have to provide a power source for them

Thats all I really need to know at the moment, and I'm pretty much set up my mind towards the Junebug. I just need someone to verify that the above are all true (and im not just being a noob)

Thanks for all your help

 

[futz]

The Junebug is an all-in-one PicKit2 clone+tutor (meaning that I can test things out, more or less as a developemnt board). It supports ICSP (so i can program the PIC while its in the target circuit) through 2X5 adapters however I must first disable the 18f1320.

3.3V PIC can be programmed, but I have to provide a power source for them

Thats all I really need to know at the moment, and I'm pretty much set up my mind towards the Junebug. I just need someone to verify that the above are all true (and im not just being a noob)

All sounds correct.

 

[futz]

I am interested in the Junebug, however I have a very stupid question that I need to ask: Where is the PIC You want to program inserted? I have looked at the manual and it seems the PIC18F2550 and PIC18F1320 have taken all the MCU places. Do we replace on of ours with the PIC18F1320? Or must we purchase a Firefly kit?

Unless you're cranking out multiple chips with the same program, using a ZIF socket is just a pain in the butt. It's definitely NOT the way you want to do your programming/debugging for experimentation.

It's slow and tedious jacking chips in and out of circuit to move to a ZIF hundreds and thousands of times while you write, test and debug your programs, whereas ICSP is quick and easy. A couple clicks or key-presses reprograms the chip when you make a change. The target chip stays put.

 

[VISN]

3.3V PIC can be programmed, but I have to provide a power source for them

Can I ask for reaffirmation - this is correct? I must provide the VSS at 3v3?When I have a 3v3 pic selected the circuit will not crank out the 12V vpp, but by having this specific PIC selected the Junebug will give the proper programming voltage?

My plans for buying a PICKIT2 just went flying with the exchange rate, so I am going to have to make one instead. ( The final cost of getting a shipped Pickit2 is not something I will be allowed)

 

[nickelflippr]

You will run into the chicken and egg problem, because somewhere an 18fxxxx usb Pic needs to be programmed for the Pickit 2 clone to work. Try buying the Microchip Pickit 2 original from an electronics distrubutor like RS or Arrow locally. A couple of recent threads on pros and cons of prototyping with the pic and pickit 2.

 

[kjennejohn]

Fair warning: Ebay has an ICD2 clone from Sure Electronics for $50. I bought one after checking prices with Microchip. Inside the package is the clone, a USB cable, some 6-pin headers and a handy little cable that connects the clone's receptacle to a typical RJ12 ICD connector. And no software or instructions. Just a card that provides a web address for downloads where it says the purchaser will find drivers and all that. Upon going there, I discovered the search engine was spastic and hard to enter characters into. Eventually it provided me with one selection: the supported-devices list. Period. Worthless.

Eight days later, after much sparring back and forth in emails, after supplying little support and two failed file downloads, they supplied the web address for Microchip's PICKit2 page and told me to use THEIR software! Upon going there I found the PICKit2, supplied with USB cable, CD, tutorials and a practice board with PIC installed, could be had for $50!! Well, OK, $68 after S&H and CA tax. Why would I hesitate? I ordered one. It arrived a few days later, ready to go. After playing with the P2, I plugged in the clone ICD2 and it worked OK. NOW I know the clone works OK, no thanks to Sure.

So, buy the real thing now while it's on sale, or one of the devices mentioned here, where you are assured of support in the future. Knowing what I know now, I could only recommend purchasing a clone-anything from Ebay as a backup if you already have a working set-up.

Wish I'd seen this post before buying anything.
kenjj

 

[futz]

Fair warning: Ebay has an ICD2 clone from Sure Electronics for $50.

Sure has a **broken link removed** as well. Same price as the genuine Microchip one, but the Sure one comes with a couple cables and a little demo board.

Go to Microchip's site for software. I mean, duh!! It's a clone! That means they don't supply software. You use the same free software as the real PICkit 2.

 

[3v0]

Wish I'd seen this post before buying anything.
kenjj

We have been talking about the PICkit2 and Junbug here for quite a few months.

3v0

 

[VISN]

spruts PIC-Page ( german)
Translated version of https://www.sprut.de/electronic/pic/index.htm
-> PIC porgamming devices -> Brenner9 [edit ]
It shows a level convertor that allows programming of the 3v3 parts. So I can build a Junebug with pickit2 firmware ( flashed into my 18f2550 by JDM2 ). Except I will have to investigate a substitute for the BAT42 diodes

 

[Funny NYPD]

You can use some of my tutorials for all the necessary software to get started:

Where to find application programs for PICkit 2?

How to calibrate PICkit 2?

How to trouble shoot PICkit 2?

Can BB0703 (PICkit 2) work with board designed for ICD2?

How to program DIP PICs with Breadboard and PICkit 2?

Also here are some pictures showing some of our PICKit2 design, our design has more hardware features than Microchip PICkit2: dedicated external power supply for Programmer-to-go feature, RJ12 interface, Buck/boost Voltage regulator (overcome the USB voltage variation issue, e.g. under normal condition, the USB voltage supply can vary from 4.1V to 5.5V), etc.
**broken link removed**

**broken link removed**

 

[ShawnR]

blueroom?

1 2nd what Futz said. The programmers from blueroom are nice in that you can get help here. The engineer who designed them is a member.

I ended up at the Blueroom website and tried emailing them on all of the links from their website but all got bounced back to me. Are they still there?

There products look good and reasonably priced.

 

[futz]

I ended up at the Blueroom website and tried emailing them on all of the links from their website but all got bounced back to me. Are they still there?

There products look good and reasonably priced.

Very good products. I own one of everything there (except a Mongoose).

You can buy them at Creatron's Ebay store.