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Help with Colin Mitchell at Talkingelectronics.com

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Mike - K8LH

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Hey guys, I need your advice, please?

An Electro-Tech Forum member "colin55" (Colin Mitchell) has copied another one of my programs and graphics from this Electro-Tech Forum thread onto his talkingelectronics web site **broken link removed**, and has done so without my permission, again.

Mr. Mitchell offers copies of his web site for sale on CD or as a download and so I don't really think it's appropriate or ethical for him to earn a living from others peoples work, especially without permission. This experience also makes me wonder how much "original work" may be contained on Mr Mitchell's site?

The sad thing is that I might actually have considered letting him copy the works if he had just had the decency and consideration to ask me ahead of time.

What do you think guys? Is this ethical/acceptable behavior?

Kind regards, Mike
 
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No it is not ethical or acceptable in my opinion.

The web page he has written could have been done just as well without your code or schematic/graphics. If it was really necessary to compare your code with his provide a link to the forum post. At the very least have the courtesy to ask permission.

I have similar issues with my site, one guy has ripped an entire project page from my site. Another guy was selling kits on ebay using my code but I did manage to use ebay VERO to at least get his listings removed permanently.

However, on the flip side, you've got to be a bit thick skinned about it, once it's on the Internet people will rip your stuff, take it as a compliment - unless it's costing you:)
 
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I think you should talk to Colin first and if he doesn't take it down, then go public with it. Unless that's what you already did. I don't see any mention of it here.
 
Well, he can't sell copyrighted material. It violates Fair Use. Contact his ISP and complain about his illegal activity. Also, what do the moderators here have to say about it?...Since his website (promoting the unauthorized material) is referenced in his profile.
 
No it is not ethical at all, but like Bill said, at least he left your name on the documents.

I can understand why you would be a bit miffed.
 
That's one of the problems with forums like this.

I think you should just assume that if you post your work here you're effectively releasing it into the public domain.

If you want to copyright anything, then you should put a copyright notice somewhere.

I also think you should talk to him before going public.

At least it's not as bad as one member who used to post othere peoples circuits with his own watermark and copyright notice added. I notice it didn't take very long for him to get banned. In fact I didn't hesitate clicking the report to moderator button.
 
Unfortunately as a others have mentioned, it is an open forum, so anything that gets posted will be freely available, the only thing you can do is lock the board for reading to all non members.
Then it becomes a closed forum, which I guess nobody wants, you have to give people the benefit of the doubt and hope their own mind will tell them to ask permission.

However, he has left your name on the schematic and the code, so it's not a "complete rip" as i'm sure other peoples work have ended up being in the past! It is a bit annoying when your work suddenly turns up on somebody elses website though!

Now, I know I can say for everybody that this forum is one of the best of it's kind, certainly from personal experience it has been one of the most helpful, and some the snippets of circuit diagrams and code and general advice have been priceless to me! The last thing everybody wants is for people to get annoyed and stop posting code / circuit diagrams, I have seen it happen only too often in the past on other forums.

You should try and contact him, and ask him in future to request your (and others if he is taking others work) permission to post the schematics etc onto his website.

But it is in no way acceptable or ethical of him to sell your work and gain profits from it, not at least without getting your permission first!

Just my 2 cents.

Wilksey
 
Thank you all for your comments and consideration.

I have tried to contact Colin Mitchell in the past but he refuses to answer my messages and that's part of the reason why I've "gone public".

Kind regards, Mike McLaren, K8LH
 
If you take the time to read the article on Talking Electronics website you will notice it says "We are not selling the program or the project. Go to Mike McLaren - Micro Application Consultants for details on these things."

The CD was updated in January and does not contain the article.
But I am glad you fossiked your way through the labyrinth of files to find the article.
I have never refused to answer any of your emails and I get hundreds each day.
You just failed to send me an email.
It's a pity you don't have a website or an email address that can be attached to the article.
I have had my whole site ripped off and reproduced in other languages and the kits sold without my approval.
Most of the FM bugs sold in the US have been taken from my site - as can be seen by the layout of the PC boards. But I don't go around crying about it.
You will notice some of the other respondents had an intelligent approach in their answer. The web is for all and it's FREE. I get nearly 3GB of traffic each day and this cost me more than I ever get out of sellling any of the kits. The Indian traffic is the second largest. That's how the world is changing.

Colin Mitchell
Talking Electronics

[MODNOTE]Removed offensive remarks.[/MODNOTE]
 
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Dear Colin,

Your response doesn't seem like much of an apology. Nor does it sound like a request for permission to place a copy of my graphics or programs on your web site. I don't understand how you can justify copying my copyrighted graphics and programs without permission simply because other people have ripped you off. Or are you trying to say you're too busy to do the decent thing and be considerate enough to ask for permission? It's not that hard to do Colin. Author AndyO was kind enough to ask for permission to post his Swordfish Servo Module recently which was based in part on one of my algorithms and I didn't have any problem telling him "yes" and "thank you for the honorable mention".

The fact is I did send you an email after you copied a version of my Up/Down Counter example program and graphic onto your web site last year and you didn't respond. You criticize my programs on your web site saying they're "too complex" but you displayed my ignition program minus important sections of comments which were meant to help people understand my example implementation of "short" and "long" switch press detection.

Back in the Ignition switch thread you posted the following comment;
With your very clever coding Mike, K8LH, beep2 will actually produce 3 beeps as call dbdelay is a call and will call the sub-rutine for a third time.
I replied that your analysis of the subroutine was incorrect but you never replied further or asked for further explanation so I assumed you went back and found your mistake.

If you have questions about my programs then I invite you to ask about them here and I would be happy to explain the portions you don't understand. This would be a lot better then displaying and then criticizing my programs on your site and holding them up as examples of programs which are "too complex" compared to yours.

I invite you to "step up" and show us what you're made of. Are you a man of honor or are you something else?

Regards, Mike McLaren, K8LH
 
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I read through the ignition switch and the schematic is indeed copyrighted, although the code is not.

I can see why you're annoyed, especially the critism but this wouldn't bother me myself, you're not selling it are you? So surely the more people who benefit from seeing the schematics and code, the better.

If you don't want this to happen again, I suggest you add something like "Copyright Mike McLaren, do not reproduce without my permission" to every attachment you don't want reproduced. If you're still that annoyed then contact your solicitor.
 
Hi Hero (and gang),

Thank you for the comments. I have started to add copyright notices on my graphics and programs.

Honestly, I don't mind sharing my knowledge and experience and I don't think I would have a problem giving permission to post my work on other peoples non-commercial sites in most cases. Asking for permission is just the decent and honorable thing to do and it's not that difficult.

I don't believe there was any need for "name calling" in Colin's response (above) and I think his bahavior and his response provides a pretty good indication of his character.

Take care. Regards, Mike
 
Mike,

I'm in full agreement with you. You are one of the posters here that post stuff that is useful. Someone plagiarizing (see below) that should be thrown off the forum. So, I'll stand in the corner of Colin getting a severe reprimand and if he doesn't correct the situation a permanent ban.

Mike.
Edit, as pointed out further down the thread, plagiarism should be copyright infringement.
 
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Mike,

I'm in full agreement with you. You are one of the posters here that post stuff that is useful. Someone plagiarizing that should be thrown off the forum. So, I'll stand in the corner of Colin getting a severe reprimand and if he doesn't correct the situation a permanent ban.

Mike.

hi,
I support this proposal.

Eric
 
I have to say: as a frequent questioner rather than giving answers, I find that it is extremely sad that even at his level of reputation via his site (Talking Electronics) that we still have to deal with issues regarding attitude, since we're all matured and problems like this usually arise from members who are one-time posters, they come and they permanently go.

I hope I too wouldn't be the one causing problems here in future.

Vizier87.
 
Mike,

I'm in full agreement with you. You are one of the posters here that post stuff that is useful. Someone plagiarizing that should be thrown off the forum. So, I'll stand in the corner of Colin getting a severe reprimand and if he doesn't correct the situation a permanent ban.

Mike.

I'd agree with that also.
 
Mike,

I'm in full agreement with you. You are one of the posters here that post stuff that is useful. Someone plagiarizing that should be thrown off the forum. So, I'll stand in the corner of Colin getting a severe reprimand and if he doesn't correct the situation a permanent ban.

Mike.

I too support this proposal.

It is now some 21 hours since this situation has been highlighted....and the offending article is still available on Talking Electronics.

The attitude and belittling comments displayed in Post #10 kind of sum things up:

The CD was updated in January and does not contain the article.
But I am glad you fossiked your way through the labyrinth of files to find the article.
I have never refused to answer any of your emails and I get hundreds each day.
You just failed to send me an email and are now behaving like a woman.
It's a pity you don't have a website or an email address that can be attached to the article.
I have had my whole site ripped off and reproduced in other languages and the kits sold without my approval. Most of the FM bugs sold in the US have been taken from my site - as can be seen by the layout of the PC boards. But I don't go around crying about it.
You will notice some of the other respondents had an intelligent approach in their answer. The web is for all and it's FREE. I get nearly 3GB of traffic each day and this cost me more than I ever get out of sellling any of the kits. The Indian traffic is the second largest. That's how the world is changing.

The fact that Talking Electronics is FREE, has been ripped, the traffic level from India is high, or even the changing ways of the world has no bearing on this situation. Just because one person's site gets ripped, doesn't mean that they have free reign to do the same............

A simple request for permission would have likely got more than just the material ripped from this site..

I'm quite disappointed with Colin's response, I've visited his site quite a few times and seen material with other people's names attached. I now wonder if he has asked permission to display the other work?
 
I'm not surprised that Colin has responded in this manner because it's typical of him.

I remember him deleting a schematic after I pointed out that it contained a fatal flaw when of course the grown up thing would've been to admit that he'd made a mistake. After this happened a couple of times, I now quote every single post of his.

I don't think he should be banned for copying someone else's designs but for insulting another member which is against the rules.

I notice, he's gains a couple of red squares and I don't blame anyone pressing the negative reputation button. :D
 
Mike,

I'm in full agreement with you. You are one of the posters here that post stuff that is useful. Someone plagiarizing that should be thrown off the forum. So, I'll stand in the corner of Colin getting a severe reprimand and if he doesn't correct the situation a permanent ban.

Mike.
I agree also.

I am a moderate poster, but I don't like the idea of ripping off another person's work without the creator's permission. Most of the posting that I've done is related to my circuit and program. I hope it hasn't been ripped off. I haven't seen any sign of it on his site, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was ripped and posted on his site.
 
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