Hearing test

[audioguru]

The audiologist did not want to test my hearing again so she turned down the overall level on the hearing aids, fitted them better and reduced the 4kHz boost. I asked her to activate the "music" mode and she did.
Now everything is still too loud but its volume control can turn it down and there is still a shrill boost at 4kHz but the feedback squealing is gone. I wore them for a couple of hours and listened to music:
1) In the Master mode the music was too shrill. I needed to turn down the treble tone controls on my sound systems as low as they go then the boost at 4kHz sounded better but still awful.
2) In the new Music mode frequencies from 3kHz to 8kHz or more were boosted and it sounded different to the Master mode. It sounded better with the treble tone controls on my sound systems turned all the way down but still sounded bad.
3) In the Comfort mode it sounded pretty good at first with less loudness and less 4kHz boost but after a few seconds the lows and highs were reduced and muffled.
Then the left ear told me, "Beep, beep. Low Baddree".

I removed the hearing aids and it sounded like I was temporarily deafened by them. After a while without them everything sounded normal, maybe with a little less loudness than a young person. I returned the treble tone controls on my sound systems to the middle with no boost band no cut and it sounded VERY good. The announcer on the FM radio station said the word Texas a few times and I heard the "SS" sounds perfectly. I hear all the high frequency sounds in music.
So I think my hearing test was VERY wrong and I do not have severe reduction of high frequencies.

I go to another hearing aids place on Monday for another free hearing test and another free trial of hearing aids.

 

[audioguru]

The first hearing test showed a loss of -70dB at 8kHz. The second test at a different hearing aid clinic shows "only" -58dB. If I get a few more hearing tests then maybe the loss will completely disappear! The high frequency loss is not that bad because my loss at low frequencies is -20dB to -30dB.
The first manufacturer is in Denmark since 1956. The second manufacturer is in Switzerland since 1947.
The second manufacturer wanted to buy a competitor for 2.65 billion dollars but the European Union blocked them from trying to control the market.
The first hearing aid gives speech for functions and low batt. The second one beeps.
The button on the first one controls only functions. The button second one controls volume or functions. The aid on the right increases volume. The left decreases volume.
The first one has fixed programs. The second one adapts to my hearing lifestyle. High tech stuff.
The second one has a caution. When it is cancelling noise or echoes from the sides or rear then I might not hear a warning sound from a car horn or a siren from an ambulance, fire truck or police car. I might not even hear my wife nagging me.
I get the second demo one in 8 days.

I do not want 4kHz boosted like crazy (it sounds very shrill) because music sounds perfect when my tone controls are flat or with just a little treble boost that boosts ALL high frequencies not just 4kHz.
You know what? If I prop my ears with a piece of foam rubber so they stick out then all frequencies will be boosted due to the directionality. Its cost is FREE and it does not look too odd.

 

[moty22]

I'm with the minority who accept your claim that manufacturers cheat. I also test them when I can, I think we shell all do.
I also agree with the evaluation and the tests you did. I'm not so sure about your final conclusion and solution though
The only points that I like to make have little importance. You might have noticed yourself that we get good days and bad days and in some days our hearing can be different to other days. It is possible that your hearing lose was a long process that allowed your brain and life style to get used to the the partial deafness. It is also possible that nature make us hear differently because it is more suitable for our other senses, this is why you can still enjoy music despite the narrow band. The sudden change you get with the hearing aid makes you react unwelcomely to the change. People our age resist sudden changes.
Now that you got the hearing aid you choices are limited; you will have to give it a longer trial. Will you recommend to your friends to get an hearing aid or to stay quiet and peaceful?

 

[audioguru]

I think the Audiologists are taught to cheat because thousands of dollars are involved. The first demo boosted 4kHz a lot and her voice sounded extremely clear. Maybe she reduced the loudness of her voice. I was very impressed as shown in my first post in this thread. I think the second Audiologist will cheat and take (steal?) the $1000 government rebate even if I do not buy the hearing aids.

I tested my first hearing aids for the last time a couple of hours ago. WAY, WAY too loud and shrill. With the volume turned down so they are comfortable then they do nothing but peak the upper midrange and I do not need them.
I thought I would get used to them in a day or two but here it is 10 days and their sound is not correct even after the Audiologist blindly "adjusted" them a few days ago.

They seem to be set up for voices at a distance. I do not listen to voices at a distance. I listen to people in front of me and music.
Tonight without hearing aids I watched the CTV news on TV with my pretty good amplified speakers and the tone controls set to flat. The news anchor person has always had a very muffled voice (the mic is too far from the mouth) but other announcers and commercials sounded fine. Now the local news is on and its sound is very clear, not muffled. Music sounds perfect without the hearing aids. I hear the high frequencies fine.

I think their hearing test assumes that I am deaf to high frequencies because the tinnitus noise (caused by a daily Asprin for my heart?) covers it up at low levels. I think I simply need ALL frequencies increased in level a little (+20dB to +30dB if their test is correct at low frequencies), not just the high frequencies boosted. Then the maximum output must be limited but it is not and becomes MUCH TOO LOUD.

Part of the hearing test today was when the new Audiologist said single words and asked me to repeat them. The sound in the earphones was narrow band like a telephone and she has an accent. Of course I did poorly and missed many words.
Another test was about 20 people all talking in the background. Their level was slowly increased and I was supposed to repeat sentences by one of them whose level was not increased. I have never Dun Dat before! I failed.
Just now the weatherman on TV was talking VERY clearly about the weather. All his "SS" like snow and days were loud and clear. If his speech was muffled like a telephone then"'snow" would sound like "no".

Hee, hee. I found a hearing aid sold by Banggood in China. It is very cheap and 18 reviews (written by them?) like it. Their Engrish is awful.

 

[moty22]

Hee, hee. I found a hearing aid sold by Banggood in China. It is very cheap and 18 reviews (written by them?) like it. Their Engrish is awful.

Since Banggood are cheap and you need one I think you should try it.

It is possible that they have special hearing test for people like you who are difficult to convince. Those tests are designed to fail even people with good hearing. You should take their tests only as an opinion and at the end make a decision which is good for you.
We think that because the Swiss hearing aid is expensive it is also good quality. It can be that most of the money pays for the private plane of the big boss.
As audio expert you know that with this size speaker you can't get flat bandwidth, small speakers are good for 4KHz. To get the volume you want at 200Hz you need 8" speaker which will hardly fit inside your hearing aid. It looks like the Swiss are offering a very impressive device with lots of controls but with the same old tweeter.

 

[audioguru]

Many ear pods are small but have excellent frequency response, others have very poor response. You do not need to fill a room with low frequencies, instead you need to fill the tiny ear canal. The very small speaker in a "in-ear-canal" hearing aid is called a receiver and it has a soft rubbery dome that seals the ear canal for excellent low frequency sound. My ordinary ear pods play the 16Hz heartbeats at the beginning of Pink Floyd's Dark Side Of The Moon vinyl record album very well.The first hearing aid has a "Comfort" mode where it sounds pretty good with flat, fairly wideband sounds for a couple of seconds. But then it slowly cuts high and low frequencies to reduce "background noise". The "background noise" is the voices and music I want to hear.

I have tinnitus (hearing very high frequency tones or hiss noise) all the time. The tinnitus is probably caused by the Aspirin I take every day to help clear garbage from my arteries so that I avoid having another heart attack.
Just now I asked Google: "Can my tinnitus cause errors in my hearing test?" and I found many people including a professor doctor at a university who say absolutely!
The hearing test determines the threshold of hearing at various frequencies so the tinnitus covers up the high frequency tones and makes it appear their threshold is bad. Then the hearing aid is programmed with WAY too much high frequency boost.

Some people say testing hearing loss with continuous tones is antiquated and instead pulsed or warble (FM) tones should be used instead. Both of my hearing tests used the antiquated method even though both clinics are new with new equipment.
The tone controls on my stereos prove that the hearing aid programming has way too much high frequency boost probably at 4kHz for improved telephone sounds. But I do not want telephone sound quality, I want flat wideband sounds.

The Danish and Swiss hearing aids cost the same. The Swiss one is newer and smaller. The Swiss one has a piece on its receiver to keep it from sliding out of the ear canal and is used to remove the hearing aid. The Swiss hearing aid is supposed to "adapt" to my hearing lifestyle. I am returning the Danish hearing aids today with an explanation to the pretty young Audiologist.

 

[flat5]

Banggood reviews are real.
If you are unsatisfied with an order they will repay you.
That is my experience and I have made ~200 orders.

Any problem you have they want a picture or movie
That can get silly. Just do it.

and I wish you success in your quest, AG.

You can always ask a question or three about the product.
There is a place on the product page for that.
You will receive an email notice of replies if you register with them.
You might ask for the manual.

 

[audioguru]

About 7 or 8 years ago I was blinded with cataracts in both eyes. Everything looked very cloudy and I could not drive my car. I needed the original cloudy lenses inside my eyes removed and replaced with synthetic lenses. I was given choices:
1) Government paid for lenses that are an old design and huge so the operation takes a long time to heal and might get infected.
2) A few thousand dollars for much newer and smaller lenses plus surgery to correct the astigmatism that occurs with old age.
3) New very expensive lenses that focus far and near but sometimes get stuck.
I selected the second choice and could see perfectly the next day. Its cost was certainly worth it.

About 6 years ago I had a heart attack at home. My wife quickly drove me to the nearby hospital and I was given choices:
1) Be a vegetable and take drugs for the rest of a short life.
2) Have two stents inserted into the blocked heart arteries and be fixed. The government pays for it.
I selected the second choice, watched the operation and now I can ride my bicycle, run, jump and if I jump high enough I can fly.

Now my hearing. If they demo a hearing aid that sounds good then I might buy only the tiny receivers and make my own amplifier.

 

[moty22]

Banggood reviews are real.

I bought about 10 items from Banggood.
About half of their reviews are written by one person, you can tell by the style of the English used. They don't have even 1 bad review, this must be a Chinese humour.
Banggood business is based on fraud; why a customer has to be an actor and video producer to prove that he was cheated.
They send me bits out of their rubbish bin because after 5 orders they declared me as not valuable customer.
They use the trick of asking to send back the faulty parts by certified mail that cost 5 times the value of the parts.
They discriminate between customers based on their names or country, it's disgusting.

 

[moty22]

Now my hearing. If they demo a hearing aid that sounds good then I might buy only the tiny receivers and make my own amplifier.

When you do that successfully you will receive your official AUDIOGURU certificate.

 

[flat5]

moty22, my experience with Banggood is very different from yours. They have tried hard to please me on all occasions that I was not happy. They sent another or credited my account. Every time. Never asked me to send something back.

AG, I also had the eye operation on both eyes. It's called 'star' here
Cost me one Euro and nobody knows why I was billed for that
Wore glasses since I was six and now I don't except for close up stuff.

I expected you would build your own amps if you were unhappy with what was available and you could get transducers you like.

 

[audioguru]

After my free trial of two weeks with the $5500.00 hearing aids I went back to return them, say I do not like the sound, say they do not fit and say good-bye.
BUT she said she could adjust the sound and fit. She has a system that has a probe in my ear canal that picks up the sound from the hearing aid, compares it with the original signal and with my hearing loss graph. The signal is a guy giving a dictionary definition of a carrot. Over and over and over and over the voice gets very boring. His voice is produced by a little oval speaker that sounds tinny, something like a telephone with no bass and not much highs. She asks if the sound is better. She asks if her voice sounds better.
She reduced the 4kHz peak a few times. I told her the sound is better. She said to extend the trial for two more weeks. It does sound better but it is not realistic. It is good at very low levels because it boosts the highs above the noise of my tinnitus. But it sounds awful when sounds are loud. Very loud sounds are amplified too much and are deafening.

I see another hearing aid clinic in a few days for another hearing test and a trial of the Swiss hearing aids. I got an appointment with a third hearing aid clinic where the audiologist said she will do my hearing test with warble tones for me to hear above the tinnitus noise.

 

[flat5]

 

[audioguru]

I see thumb-nuts on the huge hearing aid that are used to adjust the "balance control" with the swinging doors. Maybe you can close both doors when there is a commercial on TV.

 

[audioguru]

The first hearing aids I trialed were too loud and too shrill made by Widex of Denmark. They did not produce very high or very low audio frequencies and sounded fuzzy maybe with distortion.
Today I am trialing much smaller hearing aids made by Phonak of Switzerland. I am impressed. They have no distortion so they sound Very Clear. They do not sound shrill and extend to high frequencies that I haven't heard for years. Their very low frequencies are also excellent. They amplify low levels well but do not become too loud for loud sounds (invisible, inaudible compressor?). They are also wireless headphones when the remote is fed Bluetooth or if the remote is fed by a stereo cable (but it has no bass frequencies). They came with a wireless telephone that plays in Both ears when nearby.

 

[flat5]

Bingo?

 

[audioguru]

Bingo?

I like these tiny hearing aids but I have used them for only one day. The free trial lasts 3 months and there will be a few adjustments along the way.
Right now I tested my pretty good computer speakers with Audacity software playing tones. In the "voice" mode the upper midrange is boosted and high audio frequencies are gone. It sounds like a telephone which sounds wrong to me. In the "music" mode I can hear up to 12kHz very well with a sharp cutoff above (maybe caused by the computer speakers or maybe the hearing aid transducers?) but the sound is natural.

Nothing causes these hearing aids to produce acoustical feedback squealing like the other ones did. I can hug my wife really tight with no beeps from the hearing aids but maybe a few beeps from her.

 

[ronv]

Hey AG,
You are the first person I have heard that has results from their tests.
Would you mind taking this one and comparing it with your various results?
I found it worked best with good headphones in a quiet room.
**broken link removed**

 

[audioguru]

Thanks Ron, that is cool.
I did your test twice, first with my cheap Kenwood headphones that came with a portable CD player and second with my computer speakers and the new Phonak hearing aids turned down for me to get used to them. I saw the results of my second hearing test (but I do not have a copy) that is similar to the online headphones test I did a few minutes ago. The results of my first hearing test is very different and shows severe losses which is probably why the first hearing aid is way too loud and shrill.

 

[ronv]

Hmm, Maybe better than I thought.
Maybe this explains why I can't hear my wife. Or maybe not...

Now we just need some young guy to calibrate it.