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Flip flops

Discussion in 'General Electronics Chat' started by bhuvaneshnick, Aug 29, 2014.

  1. bhuvaneshnick

    bhuvaneshnick Member

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    Do flip flop serve as temporary or permanent memory and state the reason why . Any one application of flip flops.please.Thank you in advance
     
  2. crutschow

    crutschow Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Sorry, we don't do your homework for you. You have to show some work and we will then assist you.
     
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  3. bhuvaneshnick

    bhuvaneshnick Member

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    i heard this from many peoples as you said above.This is not my home work question at all.while reading sequential circuits "flipflops are temporary storage elements"mentioned.In contrast to that years before i heard that 1000s of flipflops are used inside pendrive .so i confused whether flipflop is temporary or permanent storage device
     
  4. dave

    Dave New Member

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  5. bhuvaneshnick

    bhuvaneshnick Member

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    in this forum how to personally message.Is there such option here?
     
  6. cowboybob

    cowboybob Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Easiest method is:

    Hit the picture of the member you wish to message and hit the "Start a converstion" button.

    Then hit the "Start a new conversation" button.

    Fill in "Conversation title" and then your message.

    As to your post question, google "flip flop electronics explained". Start with the Wikipedia description.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2014
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  7. bhuvaneshnick

    bhuvaneshnick Member

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    i hit your picture which right of your picture but no such button called "start conversation" .all it have is profile page ,follow ,ignore.
     
  8. Inquisitive

    Inquisitive Super Moderator

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    Start Conversation.PNG

    See it now?
     
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  9. bhuvaneshnick

    bhuvaneshnick Member

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    Screenshot (6).png

    its not showing to me
     
  10. JimW

    JimW Member

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    I think I like this question.

    It is easy enough to say that a standard flip flop is permanent storage for as long as it is powered properly. Or that it is temporary storage since it normally loses its established state when power is removed from it.

    But to say that a "flip flop" is one or the other assumes knowledge that none of us have. They have played with ferroelectrics for some time to give standard flip flops some power up memory of their state prior to power off. I am sure that other technologies could be used to do the same. So a non-standard flip flop device could easily be permanent storage regardless of the power question.

    But even on a more ethereal plane, what is a flip flop? It is only a flip flop while it is powered up. When it is powered down, it is no longer a flip flop. So by definition, it is permanent memory. Is this a philosophy question or a digital logic question?

    This is why it took me so long to complete my computer designs.

    JimW
     
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  11. KeepItSimpleStupid

    KeepItSimpleStupid Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Core memory is somewhat of a "flip flop" a read causes it to change state.
     
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  12. cowboybob

    cowboybob Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Any moderators (I know Inquisitive has seen this) have a clue why his doesn't show the conversion starter button?
     
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  13. DerStrom8

    DerStrom8 Super Moderator Most Helpful Member

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    Hi bhuvaneshnick,

    Do you have the "Conversations" link in your user menu?

    2014-08-30 18_31_41-Electronics Forum (Circuits, Projects and Microcontrollers).png
     
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  14. bhuvaneshnick

    bhuvaneshnick Member

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    you said it is not flip flop anymore when power off ,then consecutively said its permanent memory .
     
  15. cowboybob

    cowboybob Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Since it's a flip flop, it has 2 states, let's say A and B: when powered up (the A state) one output is off and the other output is on. When triggered, the outputs swap, thus the B state.

    So, generally, whatever its state when powered down (really a no state condition), when the flip flop is powered up again, it exhibits the original A power-on state.

    That's its "permanent memory".
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2014
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  16. bhuvaneshnick

    bhuvaneshnick Member

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    1)oh you mean when B state is on before power go down.it will be in same state after power up(same B state on),right?
    or
    2)whatever the state it would be before power goes down it will be in his default state(A on) after power up,that default state is called permanent memory ?
    which one is right .Thank you
     
  17. cowboybob

    cowboybob Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    2. is correct. By virtue of it's construction, the powered ON default condition is always the same.
     
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  18. JimW

    JimW Member

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    I think the answer that the O.P. is looking for is the common interpretation: that a integrated circuit flip flop is not permanent memory. A collection of flip flops does not have the same state after a power cycle than they did prior to the power cycle.

    As cowboybob said, the power up condition of a flip flop is always the same (although that generally requires a good design to make this so). Since it is always the same state on power up, it doesn't reflect what it was before it lost power. So, once again, it is not considered permanent storage.

    Interpreting the power on state as a permanent memory state is not very useful. So while cowboybob's statement is technically correct, I don't think that the original poster should use that to answer his question as to whether a flip flop is permanent or temporary storage.

    JimW
     
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  19. JoeJester

    JoeJester Active Member

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    There are two types of memory ... volatile and non-volatile.

    volatile memory loses its data upon the de-energizing of the circuit.

    non-volatile memory retains the data when de-energized.

    Magnetic core memory in the PDP/8e was non-volatile.

    Flip flops are volatile.

    EEPROMs are non-volatile.
     
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