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fisher-Paykel motor controller

Discussion in 'General Electronics Chat' started by philba, Jun 6, 2006.

  1. Andrew.Rbank

    Andrew.Rbank New Member

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    Nice to find I'm not alone.. we have a couple of F&P washers.. one is fine, the other has just fried its 2nd grey controller in about 6 yrs. Each lasted about 3 years. They both have exactly the same chip (& fuse) blown as in philba's pic.

    Has anyone repaired these or worked out what caused this failure?

    The instruction sheet that came with the first replacement highlights to check all coil resistances before reinstallation. They seem ok but I don't expect to find a solid fault here, and I'm not game to megger them till I have time to isolate the speed & temp sensor. This is a basic model and only has a few devices. Problem feels like prev post suggestion of slight water ingress to motor windings as part of a SMPS. At neither failure did the earth leakage breaker trip. We're in Oz ie 240Vac. There was enough energy to take the top off the ? device so maybe the fault was not to ground. I wonder how common this failure is...
    Pity because they are otherwise very efficient washers.
    TIA
     
  2. philba

    philba New Member

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    the first replacement controller blew because of a faulty pump motor. The resistances checked out ok BUT the tech didn't visually inspect the pump motor. (it was burnt) The tech dropped in the new controller and the bad pump took that one out in less than 2 weeks. That was in June and they still haven't figured out how to get it working. No, I have not repaired the first controller.

    I agree that they have some good features but I will never buy one again and if we ever get ours working, it's getting sold. It's already been replaced with a 20 year old mechanical whirlpool.
     
  3. Rolf

    Rolf Member

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    Reading all this makes me wonder if I should not have repaired my over 30 years old Maytag, last year, I think it was just a bearing, repair cost about $160. Maybe it would have lasted another 30.
     
  4. dave

    Dave New Member

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  5. justtrustn

    justtrustn New Member

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    GWL-11 Fisher Paykel Washer and Top Loading Dryer

    ... sooo rockin_rick and others. How's your washer still working ? Have you had to fix anything on it yet? Just curious...
    Do you have the top loading dryer by chance? Which Model?
    Looking for help on that one too... DGEX-1 :confused:
     
  6. rockin_rick

    rockin_rick New Member

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    So far, so good. But I am a single guy and thus don't do many loads a week - IOW it doesn't get much use.

    I don't have a FP dryer.

    Rick
     
  7. arunb

    arunb Member

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    the best method of washing clothes is by hand
     
  8. duffy

    duffy New Member

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    Not by a mile.
     
  9. salty9

    salty9 New Member

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    Just found this thread. I've had a GL 11 washer for about two years and the only fault I could find with it is the pump which can clog too easily. But repairing or replacing the pump takes only about five minutes and does not require the use of any tools. I also bought the extended warranty which is good for another three years.:)
     
  10. escravoes

    escravoes New Member

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    Need circuit schematic for F&P GWL11 washin brown motor module SD11 420092 230v

    Can someone email me a circuit schematic for F&P GWL11 PCB washing machine?

    There was no light nor LED display nor nothing when turn on. New module cost about $200. (GWL11HK - SD11 420092, 230V)

    Machine was 4yrs old and out of warranty.

    Upon opening up the brown motor control module, I found a soldered-on TR5 fuse (TR5-372, 4A 250v) blown but another smaller fuse (TR5 -1A 250v was ok).

    Replaced the blown fuse with a replaceable plugged-in TR5. Still no power.

    Checked all resistance rating - pump, stator, inlet valves, thermistor, lid lock and OOB - all within tolerances.

    Read here - in this blog nick 9494 in July 2006 below - about a HexFET IRL3033 (-30V, 4.6A, 0.031R) that was burnt due to possible overload.

    So before I go further into the circuit, a schematic will be much appreciated - thanks in advance.
     
  11. stevef99

    stevef99 New Member

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    Fisher & Paykel Washing m/c

    I am determined to repair a F & K Washing Machine PCB. I have had to identify unmarked components that had failed. Some components had obviously failed, and some not so obvious. The machine that I have is a GW508. I had to replace two of the motor drive MOSFET's = IRF840, and the driver for that also = IR2111S. A logic CMOS chip had also failed. The 15 volt rail had also gone down, and I had to replace the SWPS IC which is a TOP202Y, I also had to replace the power supply back EMF diode, which read OK out of circuit, but which nevertheless blew up my first replacement TOP202Y.
    Needless to say, more of a hobby than a cost effective business proposition, but I will not be beat ! ! ! Anyone who wishes to provide more info or requires info from me please post a response.

    Stevef99 ~ Brisbane
     
  12. stevef99

    stevef99 New Member

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    Rolf, Now just think, the bearing probably cost around $10 maximum........

    stevef99........Brisbane
     
  13. rcollard

    rcollard New Member

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    Did you ever find out what the problem was with your washing machine?

    I have one in slightly worse condition... someone tried to repair it before me, and replaced the 4A fuse with a solid wire. Completely dead. Bridge, pump FET's, 4A fuse, 2A fuse, IRF840's, and a section of track all gone... replaced all including bearings and seal but still no luck. Now doesn't blow fuses, and parts of board have ~200v, Moving on to find why no power at 7805 input, and to identify the chip next to it (opto isolator???).

    Still hunting for a schematic (brown controller... drawing one as I go)

    p.s. had all parts except bearings lying around so not costing anything except time. Hopefully someone can learn from what I do?
     
  14. stevef99

    stevef99 New Member

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    Thanks to r.collard for your post regarding the ECU (PCB) for the Fisher & Paykel washing m/c. It looks like you are located in a country with 110V mains. I am in Australia, therefore the HT DC on the PCB is 330V (1.4 x 240). My m/c is a GW508U Phase 4 ~ The PCB is described as a Series 8, and it is in a yellow casing.
    Yes, there is an opto-coupler which switches the Triac that controls the Drain Pump.
    On the PCB that I have, the 15.5V is used to supply the 7805 Voltage Regulator.
    Since your PCB is in a brown casing, ~ the schematic will be different.
    Here is the situation as I found it. One of the motor drive IRF840 Hexfet’s probably went short circuit, this placed 330V across one of the three IR2111 (motor drive) chips which naturally failed. When this happened, 330V went “back the way” and into the 15.5V power supply circuit. This destroyed the SMPS chip and other components in the 15.5V supply circuit. Incidentally, I prepared schematics as I progressed my investigation, and I now have pages of circuit drawings that took me weeks/ months to “reverse engineer”.
    Simultaneously to the above, the 330V HT moved into IC U807 (7407 Hex Buffer). This chip was also destroyed as were several other IC’s. My investigation extended to identifying an unmarked chip. I drew out the circuit, which I then applied to all the possible chip options. This enabled me to reduce the options down to only one possibility.
    As I reverse engineered the schematic, I realised that the 330V HT went thru the 7407 Hex Buffer and into the µPC (U901 – TMS370C042) at pins 16, 17, and 18, which are the pins that provide the signal to the three IR2111 motor-drive control chips.
    As far as I can determine, output from these 3 pins is non-existent, and I have concluded that the µPC is defective.
    The above outcome effectively “wrote off” the PCB, and I had to purchase a replacement. (second-hand, of course). Nevertheless, I have accumulated a significant amount of knowledge regarding the yellow-casing PCB which may be of benefit to someone.
    Incidentally, the self test (diagnostics mode) is of great benefit if you have access to the fault-code documentation. I downloaded that from the internet, but I don’t remember the web-site. Of course the machine would have “power up” before the diagnostics mode would function.
    If I can be of any further assistance, please post again.
    Regards,
    Steve, Brisbane, Australia.
     
  15. stevef99

    stevef99 New Member

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    F & P Diagnostic Mode and Fault Codes

     
  16. rumpfy

    rumpfy Active Member

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    Hi philba,
    I'm only replying cos I've had some success with FP repairs to a FP 'Smart Drive' washing machine (model 702/712).
    The electronic design of the Smart Drive is based on surface mounted IGBT transistors. I find that replacement of these devices is not practicable because the unsoldering and resoldering of new parts causes the copper track to separate from the PCB substrate. This separation causes the heatsinking performance for the replacement IGBT to become inadequate.
    In the FP Smart Drive washing machine, there is a micro for the motor drive control and another micro for the general program control. The main micro is a Texas Instruments TMS370 with the analog parts. The TMS is made in hundreds of different configurations, some with analog measurement capability. The TMS is not marked as a TMS because the TMS is not programmed. When programmed by the FP factory, the IC carries the program identification.
    I wont go on about how it works except to say that the design is flawed from my point of view. There is a 15 volt shunt regulator which carries ALL the current from the motor AND the water pump. The water pump and the motor CANNOT run at the same time because the motor Plus water pump input current into the shunt regulator cooks it. The water pump coil is used as the inductor in a switch mode power supply to generate the +15 volt supply when the motor and the pump is not running. The TMS does the switching control to set the 15 volt input into the shunt regulator.
    Conceptually the design is modern. The implementation however is suspect.
     
  17. stevef99

    stevef99 New Member

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    Fisher & Paykel

     
  18. bryan1

    bryan1 Well-Known Member

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    G'day Guy's,
    Well wouldn't you know it, a mates F&P went on the blink and all I had to do was replaced the hall effect board and it came back better than ever. A week later our 7.5kg F&P spat the dummy. The missus said it wasn't pumping the water out so I set it up to spin cycle and tried it. It started pumping then about 30 seconds later SNAP-CRACK-BOMB that smell of magic smoke was ripe.

    I opened up the top to look at the pcb and found the 4 amp onboard fuse had tried a launch to Mars but no other component on both sides of the board look to have any damage at all. I did have a pcb up in the shed so I replaced the fuse and bridged the burnt component pad to the pcb track. Put it all back in and turned it on and nothing. Now the pump wasn't connected so what you guys have said could be the reason why it won't boot up. I do plan to put the old pump back in and try again to see if the menu will come up. We can get a new pump assembly for $85 and hopefully the pcb isn't a large coaster.

    So waht you reckon guys try that old pump in and see if it will bootup or play on the safe side and buy that new pump then try it. I do have another pcb like I said and the psu arrangement is slightly different but the rest of the board is identical so I do have a full board for spares.

    Regards Bryan
     
  19. rumpfy

    rumpfy Active Member

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    Guys,
    The FP I have is a GW702. In my shed is a controller for an earlier model FP washer and this uses IGBT's mounted on an aluminium chassis. From the discussions there are obviously, many variants in the controller.
    In the unit I have, there is a reed switch to detect if the lid is open. We also have a newer GW712 and this has NO reed switch in the lid; the lid is 'locked' when in spin dry. We need to be careful with models and the associated controller.
    There is a IR Application note, AN-994 giving the test results for thermal resistance values of IGBT's when surface mounted onto PCB copper tracks. The test results demonstrate that the mounting of the IGBT's in the FP design on the machine I have is adequate. The problem occurs when the original device is unsoldered and replaced because the heatsinking performance is reduced after resoldering unless one is aware of the situation and the device removal was done expertly.
    The heatsinkng performance of the controller in my machine is marginal because there are a couple of extra cooling fins soldered to the other side of the PCB. These fins are 1/4 tab connectors, but a close inspection shows they were never connected to by a spade lug. They are obviously enhancement to the thermal resistance for the IGBT bridge which runs the pump motor.
    The fundamental problem in my machine was that one of the IGBT gate drive resistors (100 ohm) in the bridge drive for the pump, was open circuit.
    In standby operation, one half of the IGBT bridge is pulsed. I have a CRO trace of this waveform if anyone is interested. In this mode, the current through the pump coil is unidirectional and is used to to provide a current supply to the 15 volt regulator. The 15 volt supply is regulated by the shunt regulator IC and also the pulse width is monitored by the TMS.
    When the pump is required to run, the TMS switches each side of the IGBT bridge at a 50 Hz rate and the pump is supplied with 320 volt DC switched as a 50 Hz square wave. In my faulty machine, the pump was seeing only one half cycle so it saturated and blew the fuse.
    The pump current is passed through the shunt regulator and the shunts job is to maintain the 15 volt supply. With the pump running, the current into the shunt is greater than when the pump is not running. The shunt regulator cannot handle the combined current from the pump AND the 6 phase IGBT bridge which runs the drive motor so the pump is NOT running when the Motor is; and vice versa.
    There is a 5 volt supply for the TMS and this comes from a 5 volt regulator off the 15 volt supply.
    In my machine, the solenoid valves are 12 volt types. The 12 volt supply is a PWM pulse of 320Volt from the dc rectifier. The solenoids are not fed from the 15 volt supply. The TMS controls the pulse width for driving the solenoid valves.
    There is reference in the blog to set up data and manuals. I have this info if anyone is interested. The control program for the 5, 5.5, 6, 6.5, etc Kg machines is different but each controller can be set for the particular machine. Enter maintenance mode by pressing and holding the Start button while powering up (I think from memory and switch ON at the power point).
    With the water pump, this is a French product. It is stated to be a 800 mAmp motor. With the pump impeller removed, the no load motor current on the mains is around 450-500 milliamp. With the Impeller fitted the current is around 700 - 750 mAmp.
    I rewound the motor in my machine with 95 gram of 0.3 mm enamel wire. Number of turns from memory is 1200. Again, can give info if any one asks. Because of the sensitivity of the heatsink design, if I had troble with these machine again I would check the pump motor current and be sure it is less than 750-800 mAmp. If the pump is dodgy with High current demand it would likely cook the IGBT pump drive bridge.
    Hope that helps.
     
  20. stevef99

    stevef99 New Member

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    Hi Bryan 1

    What is the Model number of your machine ?
    If the drain pump becomes blocked it can cause problems thru excessive current drain. If your machine has a small hatch at the front, open it and try to turn the pump fan by hand, with the power OFF, of course.
    Measure the drain pump resistance to find if the pump has shorted windings ~ the pump resistance should be 33 Ohms if fitted with the Selni pump, or 26 Ohms if fitted with the Comprecci pump. If your machine is 1995 or later, it will PROBABLY have the Selni pump. If the resistance reads OK there is unlikely to be a fault with the pump. If the pump stalled due to lint trapped in the pump impellor, the triac on the PCB will probably have failed. (could be BT136/500 or similar). Check resistance of triac to find if it has failed. Do not boot-up with a faulty pump connected, and do not boot-up with a failed triac still in place. Good luck. Let me know how you get on.

    Stevef99
     
  21. bryan1

    bryan1 Well-Known Member

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    Hi Steve,
    I pulled the board off and now I'm in the process of comparing the washing machine board(B1) against this other board I have(B2) and yes the BT136 triac has a short between the terminals where as the one on the other board doesn't. Now right behind the triac is a 331 smd resistor the one B1 measure 91.6 Ω and on B2 99.1 Ω. The fuse I replaced did show continuity before I soldered it on but doesn't show any now so I'm thinking of bringing up 2 enammeled wires and putting a standard glass fuse in.

    As far as the model number goes all I can tell it is a GW and the control board says replaced 2003. The machine is a 7.5Kg smartdrive 9 excellence.

    The water pump is completely toast with the coil totally burnt out. I am on the hunt for a secondhand pump so I can test and sort out all the problems before committing to the new pump. With the old pump it did look like the seal had leaked causing water to go onto the pump windings causing the short and with a new pump it will have a new seal so I do think that is the best way to go.

    I got this machine several years ago in exchange for a rectifier diode block I made for a wind genny so yes it was a cheap machine and the best 1/2 loves to use it. So I am going to do my best to repair it myself then I might just might get her to see the benefit of my new intended electronics room in the new she I'm building which she has claimed.

    Regards Bryan

    EDIT: Ok the micro is a TMS370C042 and the board code is 426119E. Now as this machine was rebuilt using good parts one could say it a bit of a hybrid and with another pump, the BT136 and fuse replaced hopefully that is all that will be needed to get this machine fixed. I did look at that link to the instrubales and downloaded the service manuals as I think I might need to reprogram in the parameters again once I get it going.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2012

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