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Electronically Impulsing a pendulum for a clock

Discussion in 'General Electronics Chat' started by markelectro, Apr 8, 2007.

  1. RODALCO

    RODALCO Well-Known Member

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    I have had the same problem, couldn't find any data of that IC.
    It may have been custom built.
    It is a divide by 22 counter with 8 pins.
    A CMOS IC 4521 would do the same and let you access other frequencies too.

    Clock details where it came out off.

    MaxiRex BQT
    R 36 h
    Ref No 915402
    220 V 50/60 hz
    contact 16/250
    Westdeutsche Elektrogerätebau
    West Germany

    Made over the period 1985 - 1990 , by now adays standards antique.

    Steppermotors would be feasable driving a simple geartrain which can show the difference between the two.
    One on the mains, one on the masterclock under test, perhaps a third one on a precision timebase.
    The ECS memory masterclock uses a system with planetary wheels which store the pulses when power is lost in an outage and the clock runs on it's own power reserve from the main spring. Power back on and correction is made at one impulse every 2 seconds to advance the minute impulsed dials.
     
  2. markelectro

    markelectro New Member

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    Ray
    Forgive me as I am a little confused so I must ask-

    RE.The quartz clock circuit shown in the diagram you added, you say instead use an 'ic 4521', please explain to a novice why it has to have a divide counter?.

    I do understand that we use the quartz as a timebase for the pulse and it requires some circuitry for it to power right and after that the circuit is divided down by the '4017' and then the '4018 and gate' to give you the final 3 sec pulse to the solenoid.

    So why is it required in the quartz circuit??

    Hope you understand I have to ask.


    Regards Mark
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2007
  3. RODALCO

    RODALCO Well-Known Member

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    4521 circuit

    Built a circuit with a 4521 if you can get hold of one and a 4.19 MHz crystal.

    The output from this can also drive via a 1 k:eek:hm: resistor directly a BC 547 or 2 N 2222 and drive the coil from there.

    Schema found somewhere on google.
     

    Attached Files:

  4. dave

    Dave New Member

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  5. RODALCO

    RODALCO Well-Known Member

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    Nearly forgot, above 4521 circuit will give a one second impulse in this set up with Q 22 used, other Q outputs give different even frequencies.

    (Q 22, means divided by 22.)

    If you need 3 second pulses you still require a divider like a 4017, which can give you odd values.
     
  6. markelectro

    markelectro New Member

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    Ray

    Wanted to move over to this thread just so they are kept in relation to the topics.

    Seen this week a shorts free pendulum in Copper housing,you know the ones in private collection up and running.He also had a gpo. in complete sync with it oh and a warren master to boot!!

    He uses the signal from the free pendulum shorts to trigger an electro magnet like the ones found in gent slaves and in large relays. when the magnet engadged it pulled forwards a little arm forwards that gave the pendulum just a little push and when the magnet dis engadged the arm went to rest again.

    Anyway how ever it worked it was in comple sync with the shorts.It was a cool little item to the clock

    Regards Mark.
     
  7. RODALCO

    RODALCO Well-Known Member

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  8. markelectro

    markelectro New Member

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    Ray

    Great stuff !! Have you thought about how you can make this a more permanent feature?


    BTW. I caught a glimpse of a dial with lots of other dials on it ,mmmmmmmm!!! Whats that? looks interesting.


    Mark
     
  9. RODALCO

    RODALCO Well-Known Member

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    To keep this thread alive I'm working on a new modification which drives 1, 2/3, 3/4 and 1/2 second pendulum clocks.

    At the moment I'm in the testing stages and all works fine.
    Basic concept of the circuit is about the same with some minor changes.

    O.T. We have a very hot and dry summer in NZ hence not enough time in my workshop to experiment with new ideas and projects, although I admit that I spend too much time on internet forums and don't get anything else done.

    At the moment I'm in the testing stages and all works fine.
    Basic concept of the circuit is about the same with some minor changes.

    Some photo's will appear soon when I have the prototype board built.

    Regards, Raymond
     
  10. HS3

    HS3 New Member

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    What a mess of a thread! I think there is a lot of misunderstanding and misunderstandings here. Many people talking about different things altogether.

    I think there are two very different things being discussed here. I think the OP was asking about using the pendulum as the prime timekeeper and giving it magnetic impulse (rather than mechanical) so it would not stop. This is *extremely* easy and does not require any oscillators or complex electronics. Many swinging display-gadget-toys work like this. All they have and all you need is a pickup coil which feeds a transitor which feeds the impulse coil. You do NOT need accurate timing or measurement of any kind. That is what the pendulum is doing! Just give the pendulum a small impulse every swing. That's all you need to do.

    A totally different thing being discussed is using a different timebase (like a quartz oscillator or radio signals) to keep a pendulum in sync. This is totally different as the pendulum is no longer the time base. You could get rid of it alltogether. I assume it is being kept for aesthetic purpose but, again, this is a *totally* different problem than the previous situation where the pendulum is the time base.
     
  11. wombweller

    wombweller Member

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    Hi HS3
    Seems that you are right.We do get carried in excitement with topics of mutual interest.;)

    The most popular way of dealing with this is using the Hipp/toggle method as we suggested early on.I think the point here is what can we do if we aren't using the hipp/toggle method?

    We have to use as you say a impulse coil to give the pendulum a push , the question is how will we trigger the impulse coil when the pendulums swing begins to fail.?

    Again the point as you say is not to set the swing of the pendulum to a timebase thus making the pendulum pointless but to only impulse it as and when the swing drops thus keeping it in a constant swing and beat determined by the pendulums length.

    Some clocks have the impulse coil at the bottom of the pendulums swing and some closer to the middle.

    Rodalco shows how he keeps two clocks in perfect sync, again nice to look at when side by side.

    Any thoughts on how we can approach this electronically without the use of any toggles?

    Regards Mark
     
  12. wombweller

    wombweller Member

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    Hi Ray

    Glad to hear you are keeping things going.I am looking forward to any results that come and photos to boot.;)

    At the moment I am still looking for a good way to impulse the pendulum without any toggles being involved.Again we all know that the pendulum only requires a gentle push when it reaches a point at which it begins to slow.

    I am thinking of inserting a pendulum in to a clear polycarbonate tube . I am also at a way to get the tube to a constant Barometric pressure but not a complete Vacuum as in Shorts but quite figured just how yet :confused:


    Any way looking forward to any results.

    Mark
     

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