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DIY Toner Transfer Paper (cheap and easy))

Discussion in 'General Electronics Chat' started by Rolf, Jun 26, 2009.

  1. MrDEB

    MrDEB Active Member

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    zip lock bags - good idea

    never thought about doing it that way.
    problem is the bag size needs to be large.
    I myself use a plastic tub like what ice cream came in. even considered using a "kitty litter box" but would need lots more chemical.
    my vote is for the hydrogen peroxide/muratic acid
    this wax paper thing not real sure about. go-na have to try it out
     
  2. Rolf

    Rolf Member

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    The way I judge how much hydrogen peroxide/muriatic acid to mix; a 1/2 cup will do 10 sq" easily.
    I use a turkey baster to squirt the acid on the board which I have placed face up in the tray.
    The laser label backing paper is better.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2009
  3. 3v0

    3v0 Coop Build Coordinator Forum Supporter

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    I have only done the bag thing with sodium persulphate which is much safer to handle.

    Make sure you use the freezer zip lock bags. The others are not strong enough and will leak. Even so I am not sure if it is a good idea.
     
  4. dave

    Dave New Member

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  5. Rolf

    Rolf Member

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    Testing.........

    I have done a rough test of magazine paper and and magazine paper with Elmer's Washable School Glue Stick. Paper was not high gloss. Only the right side of the "transfer" paper was covered with the glue. Make sure that the glue is dry before printing. Picture was taken after about three minutes of rubbing / washing both sides about equally:
    P6280435 s Magazine paper and glue.jpg
    The top right side did evidently not have enough glue on it.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2009
  6. DirtyLude

    DirtyLude Well-Known Member

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    You must be doing some pretty large boards to need a bucket. 20cm is about as large as I've ever needed, so I just use a plastic sandwich container. For the FC etchant, I would shine a light underneath, which would warm the etchant and also I'd be able to see when the etching was complete, because I could see through the board.

    I don't see any benefit to the plastic bag and I can see it being a mess.

    Ya, I have one bottle of FC and one bottle of AP crystals that I'll never use.

    Here's a tip. Don't sniff the muriatic acid, like I did. That'll wake you up.
     
  7. Rolf

    Rolf Member

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    I have an ultrasonic cleaner that will accommodate an object as large as a CD. I tried to figure out how to use it as an etcher. The bowl is SS so I cant poor the etchant into it directly. But if I use the plastic bag method then I can put it into the cleaner. I would first put a strong mixture of baking soda and water in the bowl as a safety measure.
    What do you think, please comment.
     
  8. 3v0

    3v0 Coop Build Coordinator Forum Supporter

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    It sounds like a good idea in that getting fresh etchant to the copper is what works.

    I wonder if the ultrasonic cleaner will remove the toner too ?
     
  9. Rolf

    Rolf Member

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    Good point! Just ran a 15 minute test in water, it loosened some of the transfer paper on one design. The other design was clean already. None of the traces on either design was effected after the cleaner ran for two spurts of 8 minutes each. So I don't think there is anything to worry about. Guess I will have a go of it for my next board.

    P.S. I know 8+8=16 but I had the PCB out several times for inspection without stopping the US timer.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2009
  10. mramos1

    mramos1 Active Member

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    Did that the first time. And it did wake me up.

    I heard the AP was good also and was going to try it. But this does work quite well over Ferric Chloride. Will hang on to the FC for a couple more months and put it on Craigslist to get rid of it.

    I was hoping Rolf would try hair spray, the glue stick looked pretty good.

    Maybe I will skip AP and try the Pulsar paper next.
     
  11. mramos1

    mramos1 Active Member

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    I will try that on my next board. I have a 2.5 liter ultrasonic cleaner (clean carbs in it). Stainless like yours. I was using plastic cups too, maybe I will set a cup in the cleaner and see how fast the copper comes off and pray it does not remove toner :rolleyes: Mine heats as well.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2009
  12. 3v0

    3v0 Coop Build Coordinator Forum Supporter

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    Sounds like a good idea. Going to have to check ebay for something large enough for a 4BBL.
     
  13. DirtyLude

    DirtyLude Well-Known Member

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    I think a gentle rocking of the etchant tank would do better to agitate the etchant than an ultrasonic cleaner. If I did anything, I might make up a small platform with a servo, but as it is, just knocking the board about a bit with the end of a plastic clip seems to work fine, especially with the acid etchant, which doesn't really need much in the way of agitation.
     
  14. Rolf

    Rolf Member

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    "I think a gentle rocking of the et chant tank would do better to agitate the et chant than an ultrasonic cleaner"
    Is this just a guess? I don't like to play games so I am going to find out for myself, unless someone that have actually tried it post their experience.
    Meanwhile, I will stick with my turkey basting method, it works fine.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2009
  15. DirtyLude

    DirtyLude Well-Known Member

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    When I say "I think" it means it's just a guess. But I still don't see the point. Is it not etching fast enough for you?
     
  16. 3v0

    3v0 Coop Build Coordinator Forum Supporter

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    I etch in a glass bread pan. I set the pan on a block of foam rubber. A little down pressure on the pan is enough to rock the fluid. Works. I expect the turkey baster is faster.

    It would be nice to add a heating pad or such to keep the etchant hot.

    This is not my idea of the ultimate etcher but it works well for single boards.
     
  17. Rolf

    Rolf Member

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    I think you can judge the speed by observing the color of the copper. When I squirt the board it immediately turns a bright and shiny. I cant remember getting that when I just rocked it back and fourth.
    It takes about 15 min at room temp.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2009
  18. mramos1

    mramos1 Active Member

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    Works very well, if I can do boards in it, better. And I brought the extended warranty so I will use it a lot more. No 4barrel in this one. :D Almost. You can clean and flip and clean, that works too.
     
  19. MrDEB

    MrDEB Active Member

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    Use a sponge or pad

    over at the Pulsar site they suggest using a soft sponge or pad and gently wiping the boards while etching
    with gloves on of coarse.
    and safety glasses
    if using the muratic acid / hydrogen peroxid method its
    1 part muratic acid in first
    THEN
    add 2 parts hydrogen peroxide
    have seen reference to this. do not reverse where you add the acid to the hydrogen peroxide.something about chemistry??
    adding a base to acid??? is the proper procdure
    double check first.
     
  20. be80be

    be80be Well-Known Member

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    I etched My first board so far so good I used photo paper and the old lady's iron to iron it on first try I didn't get all of it on the copper second time it came out fine I think I'm going
    to like this Lol.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2009
  21. Mr RB

    Mr RB Well-Known Member

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    Well how about an educated guess... Everything about ultrasonic cleaners is optimised to focus all the power on removing stuff from surfaces... It may not be the best agitator for an etchant tank. :D
     

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