Disposal of Etchant!

[Mosaic]

There are various types of etchant in use:

Ferric Chloride, HCL acid and hydrogen Peroxide

Dilute Nitric Acid.

Which is the best way to dispose of these chemicals. Given that we don't all reside in countries that offer chemical waste disposal facilities?

I have access to Nitric acid as it's commonly found in Chemical Labs in Universities and High school labs locally and is imported in Bulk. It's simpler to handle than mixing the HCL and H2o2. Ferric Chloride is hard to come by.

 

[Sceadwian]

There are three steps typically done in waste water treatment facilities.
You neutralize the solution to a specific PH the waste metal tends to determine the exact PH but it's around 9 specific waste streams required slightly different PH and floculation entry points. You use floculation aids like aluminum sulfate as it provides nucleation sites, ferric chloride is sometimes used because it makes the floc heavy which helps it sink in an active waste treatment system, there is almost always a polymer or two added to allow chaning into heavier clumps. Then things go into GENTLE mixing tanks to allow the chemicals to do their work without breaking up the floc, fed into a graity settling tank (or just the mixers turned off to allow things to settle) the final clear water is sent for final neutralization to legal discharge PH and dumped, the remaining sludge is collected, dewatered, dried and then disposed of primarily in facilities that mix it with concrete and dump it into natural bedrock formations. The legal term for this dried waste is F006, link bellow for reference.

If that's above you, drop it off at your local waste depository. You're in Wisconsin if you'd like me to find one for you I would be glad to do so.

DO NOT DUMP IT DOWN THE DRAIN

**broken link removed**

 

[Mosaic]

Any ideas on handling the cupro nitrates formed by the Nitric acid? Or shall I just use sodium bicarbonate to neutralise and form copper carbonate precipitate?

I see this for FeCl
https://www.mgchemicals.com/techsupport/ferric_faq.html

 

[Sceadwian]

Sure, pretty simple, evaporate the water and turn it into a recycling facility that can handle it, they'll take small quantities off your hands for free, in larger volumes it might be considered recyclable for cash, the chemical value in volume could be well above handling costs. It's useful in organic chemistry from what I understand.

You could also make basic voltaic cells using it to plate out the metals into passivated states which could be safely land filled at a disposal site. Just gotta keep that kind of thing out of the ground water, it's used for batteries and in organic chemistry as well as having some basic value for a REASON. It's reactive.

Might not consider copper a heavy metal, so be it.
Might not consider it toxic, so be it.
Why is it used to kill plants then?

ANY soluble form of copper is lethal to plant/bacterial life in general. In controlled and trace amounts it's required for other lifeforms, again in controlled and trace amounts.

 

[cr0sh]

He's not in Wisconsin - he's in Trinidad, West Indies...

 

[Sceadwian]

No wonder they don't understand then, the entire West Indie federation isn't equivalent to the the population of the 60th largest city in the world.

 

[Mosaic]

Well, we prob. have less than 1000 electronic hobbyists in the whole country. If we all poured a litre into the same waterway at the same time...we might manage to kill a couple frogs, or some water lily roots. Otherwise, since residential waste is managed 95% by soil soakways in each property the problem of dumped etchant really isn't a problem. The copper is consumed killing off the algae bloom & tree roots in the soakaway, which is a good thing.

There is no legislation about what u put into your soakaway.

Seems that copper ain't so bad after all:

https://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_hb6616/is_6_98/ai_n29446012/

No wonder they don't understand then, the entire West Indie federation isn't equivalent to the the population of the 60th largest city in the world..

Don't u mean population? There isn't a federated West Indies.
And since when does population size have to do with what people understand?

 

[Pommie]

Until I recently moved, I used to just dump it in the swimming pool. Now, I'll just dump it down the drain. It really isn't that big a deal.

Mike.

 

[Mosaic]

Pommie...u in Brisbane eh? How's the flood situation?

 

[Pommie]

Pommie...u in Brisbane eh? How's the flood situation?

Not too bad, spent all of yesterday shoveling, hosing, sweeping and pumping mud out of our basement. The hard bit is that our lift got flooded and won't be working till the end of the week and I'm on the 14th floor. By next week I'll either be super fit or dead.

Mike.

 

[Mosaic]

This is interesting for the Nitric acid approach.... recovery of the copper, if u want.

https://www.msu.edu/~santalam/chemistry/Documents/The Recycling of Copper.doc


Also: u can make genuine rocket fuel if u capture the NO2 emitted during Nitric etching and chill it to say -15 Deg C...like in a fridge freezer.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinitrogen_tetroxide

 

[Mosaic]

Not too bad, spent all of yesterday shoveling, hosing, sweeping and pumping mud out of our basement. The hard bit is that our lift got flooded and won't be working till the end of the week and I'm on the 14th floor. By next week I'll either be super fit or dead.

Mike.

Be sure to toss all your old etchant into the water/mud...otherwise you'll have some nasty mold cropping up!.

I hope your Car survived!

I have to Depart Trinidad at 1 Am, Land in NYC at 6AM in mid April, climb the Statue of Liberty to the Crown ....22 stories, then shop all day on 5th Avenue, then fly to Vegas on the 6pm Delta flight....Then drive to Planet Hollywood towers...

I am going to have to start training...LOL.

 

[Sceadwian]

Mosiac, would you please read this?
https://www.sidsnet.org/docshare/other/20041102123338_TRINIDAD_AND_TOBAGO_NAR_2003.doc

Your own government is agreeing with me. Again, your mindset is common in many countries let alone in the US, and it's still sad.


Major US cities have to deal with this NOW, and their waste treatment plants are currently struggling.

 

[Mosaic]

Mosiac, would you please read this?
https://www.sidsnet.org/docshare/other/20041102123338_TRINIDAD_AND_TOBAGO_NAR_2003.doc

Your own government is agreeing with me. Again, your mindset is common in many countries let alone in the US, and it's still sad.

Major US cities have to deal with this NOW, and their waste treatment plants are currently struggling.

I am not quite sure what your point is.

I see no discussion of etchant or copper in the doc. Just the usual policy discussion and that is not a gov't policy document, merely a report.

In my area we don't have chemical waste handling, it all goes into the same landfill. All the drycell/alkaline/lithium & small rechargeable batteries, fluorescent tubes, mercury lamps etc. We do ship some waste into Venezuela for handling, eg Lead acid batteries. A couple outfits do handle some of the electronic and paper waste, at a cost.

Anyway, more to the point, I'm going to have a go at the sodium hydroxide (lye) approach to neutralizing the nitric etchant with the copper hydroxide precipitated out and a relatively harmless sodium nitrate liquid residue.

 

[Sceadwian]

Mosaic, perhaps you should actually read the document... Your country has no hazardous waste handling measures that are enforced, this is why you think the way you do. This is also why that report exists because it was noticed that this 'blind eye' view of hazardous waste can't be sustained if the country intends to develop..

You're ignorant of the harm you cause, you are not clear of causing harm. The same discharge in THIS county (most counties in this country) would be considered a violation of hazardous waste disposal law, and while it's equally non-enforced it doesn't make it any better.

 

[Mosaic]

I am still not sure of your point.

If there is no waste policy and no waste disposal facilities...what can a person do?

 

[Sceadwian]

Regardless it's not okay to dispose of this down the drain ANYWHERE EVER. If there are no faclities, just hang on to it! A lifetimes usage of etchant and hazardous chemicals for a common household would take up a few plastic gallon jugs. Are those gallons important? Yes, it's the start of a mentality for responsible disposal. You are one person. what everyone else does is their buisness, if you try to go the extra mile for disposal... You're a head up on the rest of society even in developing countries.

 

[RMMM]

I am still not sure of your point.

If there is no waste policy and no waste disposal facilities...what can a person do?

Honestly? Take that report, and a business plan to the government. That what you should do.

If you were to start such a facility, and your government ALREADY knows the dangers of flushing chemicals, you can make a VERY HEALTHY LIVING by opening a facility to handle all this.

Even if your facility only used a few old fuel tankers and stored it, you could sell it to the US or other countries that extract the copper from it to sell as scrap. Or you could do this.

That is what is done here with photofinishing chemistry. There are tons of silver in photo paper, emulsions, and waste chemistry.

Companies will set up a bin in your shop, and you call them when it is full. They pick it up, and extract the silver using electrolysis and make millions.

Same with catalytic converters with cars.

If anyone cared enough to do it, they would be rewarded handsomely for it.

There are billions of dollars available in nationwide grants for things like this. You could have a $100,000 in a few weeks to research how much of the population is doing this.

After that report is in, you will then get much more money to build the plants, and set up the processing.

Copper is on short supply..partially because of the war.

With a half decent plan, you will get the grants.

Thats what a person can do.

 

[Mosaic]

Edit:

Whatever u think must be best.

 

[SABorn]

Rather than flogging rules and regulations, i would think you could attract a lot more positive interest if you researched a few simple techniques of better handling the chemicals before we pour them down the drain, as we still are going to do that.

One example........

If you place a piece of bare steel in your spent ferric chloride solution and leave it a day or two, all the copper will settle to the bottom, and the solution will almost become clear.
Pour the solution off the top leaving the copper sludge behind...allow the sludge to dry.

The solution is not much more than hydrochloric acid now and can be neutralized with some caustic solution or even bleach, bicarb soda, baking soda, etc.

Then dump it down the drain.

All very simple and a hell of a lot better than dumping the raw copper laden ferric chloride down the drain.

Understanding will get a bigger result than quoting rules and regulation.

Besides its a good experiment to do with the kids and shows a more responsible approach.

Pete.