deisel conversion to NG?

[philba]

Does anyone know if it's possible or practical to convert a diesel engine to natural gas? I'm looking for a backup generator and have natural gas. Most of the larger 12KW or higher generators seem to be diesel. It would really be superior to having to deal with liquid fuel issues.

I suspect the answer is no due to the compression ratio of a diesel.

 

[Hero999]

I would say no since natural gas is a lot more flamable than deisel, it will probably just blow up.

But you can convert vegitable oil to deisel. You might be able to purchase old chip fat from your local fish and chip shop for a very low price then convert it to super cheap deisel.

 

[philba]

my guess is it will ignite early but blow up?

veggy oil to diesel. It's called biodiesel and is well known. However, I wouldn't try to do it myself. Interestingly, in the seattle area, they are planning on a huge biodiesel plant. it's actually more expensive than regular diesel, though.

 

[DrDudley]

I know of several people converting engines to run on propane but not sure if it was a diesel engine or gas engine.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

There have been various car conversions to run on gas rather than petrol, but I've never heard of doing it with a diesel engine?. Considering a diesal engine is a 'heavy oil' engine, it seems pretty unlikely?.

 

[philba]

There have been various car conversions to run on gas rather than petrol, but I've never heard of doing it with a diesel engine?. Considering a diesal engine is a 'heavy oil' engine, it seems pretty unlikely?.

yes, that's what I thought because it uses compression to cause detonation but hoped to hear from some one who knows definitively.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

A quick google for 'LPG car conversion' gives lots of hits, one of which is , if you select a make and model, choosing a diesal one, it says:

Unfortunately the Greenfuel Company does not convert diesel cars to run on LPG.

Diesel and LPG are quite different fuels and at present The Greenfuel Company cannot recommend any system that combines them.

Further checking might produce more help?.

 

[Hero999]

So it looks like the only option is to replace the engine.

 

[philba]

lol, like I have a generator. I was investigating my options before I buy. I've found several gasoline generators in the 12KW range and believe they can be converted to NG. Unfortunately, they are much more expensive than the surplus military generators that will last forever. I'm still not sure what I'm going to do. Another thing I discovered in my research is that NG (and propane) powered engines are derated from the gasoline ones.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

Unfortunately, they are much more expensive than the surplus military generators that will last forever.

Strangely enough an old friend of mine bought a surplus generator from an auction at a USAF base in the UK - if I remember correctly it was a two stroke diesel, and something like 300KW - perhaps a little large for your purposes?.

 

[philba]

not strange at all. those monsters are floating around all over the place and they last forever.

a little too large... hmmm. maybe i could start my cyclotron project...

 

[bryan1]

Hiya Philba,
As you've probably worked out there's no way to run a diesel on gas but if you haven't yet take a look how each motor works and it's pretty self explanatary. My 15 kva Onan 3 phase genset runs on autogas via a forklift gas bottle and can fit 3 of them. Basically any petrol engine can run on gas if the gas unit is installed properly and the petrol motor can handle it. At the company I work for we sell the Kohler range of motors/gennies and their gas units start at the 15 hp mark and over. anyway if you do go for a diesel genny make up a blend of diesel, vege oil and sump oil and make sure the oils are well filtered and the mix is well agitated. I've got a 48 hp diesel tractor running on this blend and it hasn't affected the motor in the last 12 months.

Cheers Bryan

 

[philba]

thanks bryan, I'm pretty biased against a diesel simply because I don't want to deal with the fuel. NG would be ideal since we have underground service.

 

[Hero999]

Does the vege oil work with turbo injected deisel though?

It'd be cool to run a modern car from this stuff.

 

[bryan1]

Does the vege oil work with turbo injected deisel though?

It'd be cool to run a modern car from this stuff.

Allo Hero,
My old tractor and stationary diesel motors are reasonably old and on the research I've I done I aint seen anyone using a diesel turbo to run a blend. As far as using a blend in a modern vehicle you would need to use bio diesel which with some setup work can be made yourself. Checkout some RE websites and google and you'll find all the info you need for making bio diesel but it's not for the faint hearted.

Cheers Bryan

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

Does the vege oil work with turbo injected deisel though?

It'd be cool to run a modern car from this stuff.

You need to be aware of the SERIOUS legal complications in the UK, it's OK off the road, but for on road use you may fall foul of evading paying the tax on the road diesel!.

 

[bryan1]

You need to be aware of the SERIOUS legal complications in the UK, it's OK off the road, but for on road use you may fall foul of evading paying the tax on the road diesel!.

Well over here in Oz they sell biodiesel at the pump and it's about 5 cents a litre cheaper than real diesel. When I talked with the SA director he said well govt tax takes over 80% of the take and we just go over breaking even. Well the ****heads that voted the liberals 10 years ago voted for Oz losing the title of being the lucky country. Now we're the most overtaxed dictorship in the world and we'll soon be the next yankie state. Atleast here on the farm we can still do what we want but I wonder for how long. Well atleast I'm not connected to the grid so I'm considered in the back waters but I'm only 50 K's from Adelaide the SA capital go figure!!!!

Cheers Bryan

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

Well over here in Oz they sell biodiesel at the pump and it's about 5 cents a litre cheaper than real diesel. When I talked with the SA director he said well govt tax takes over 80% of the take and we just go over breaking even. Well the ****heads that voted the liberals 10 years ago voted for Oz losing the title of being the lucky country. Now we're the most overtaxed dictorship in the world and we'll soon be the next yankie state. Atleast here on the farm we can still do what we want but I wonder for how long. Well atleast I'm not connected to the grid so I'm considered in the back waters but I'm only 50 K's from Adelaide the SA capital go figure!!!!

In the UK there's 'red diesel', which is untaxed (or only lightly taxed), and only for use in farms and quarries (basically off road). The dye that makes it red is EXTREMELY persistent, a drop of red diesel in a normal diesel tank will stain it for months, and is easily detected. Penalties for using red diesel are fairly stiff, and using homemade biodiesel has similar penalties. Spot checks are reasonably regular, but basically aimed at known offenders - or people in a position to freely obtain red diesel.

A friend of mine has recently had to give a statement to the police, because a friend of his ran out of diesel and borrowed an empty jerry can (4 gallons) from him. The guy was being prosecuted weeks later because a test showed the presence of red diesel in the tank - the empty jerry can had been used for red diesel at some time (actually for a grass mower). My friends statement cleared him, as the story was consistent with the level of dye in the tank.

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

Just a sudden thought - with all this talk of different fuels?.

Anyone remember TVO (Tractor Vapourising Oil), which was a cheap and nasty paraffin product. Old tractors had two tanks, one petrol and one TVO, you started the engine on petrol, but once it was warm switched over to TVO, which was a LOT cheaper (like red diesel).

As kids we used to have an old pickup truck (Ford Popular) we used to run round the fields - we disconnected the fuel tank and replaced it with two mootorcycle tanks in the back - one with petrol, one with TVO - used to work fine, and we could 'steal' TVO from a big tank on the farm (we had to buy the petrol).

Note though, it's a VERY low octane fuel - not suitable for modern engines.

We used to mix it in the petrol on old motorbikes as well (Norton, BSA, Matchless etc.) which stretched the small amount of petrol we could afford.

 

[penoy_balut]

There's a guy in the Phils. who runs his car with water.