Current state of Automation

[neptune]

just wanted to share this wonderful video about automation.

 

[Sceadwian]

You can't automate the processes of a human brain, not with all the processing ability of every computer on earth combined. I think the video is simplistic about the reality and fundamental difficulties in automation from a practical standpoint.

 

[neptune]

oh you are talking about AI , that has still 50 years to come

 

[Sceadwian]

That's what the video talks about, not automation. A doctor has to think and be intelligent, to derive from experiences not simply to judge from cause to effect, it's never that simple. An architect has to take into account both aesthetic value and structural limitation of materials. The same with any craftsman. You can't automate that kind of process, you can automate to production of a final product, but not the initial creation of it.

 

[neptune]

but eventually we will crack AI
google - "Hierarchial temporal memory"

 

[nsaspook]

but eventually we will crack AI
google - "Hierarchial temporal memory"

The pattern recognition vision surveillance products made using this type of technology can be easily fooled by simple counter-measures that a slug could detect. **broken link removed**
I made a bet 20 years ago with a PHD level AI researcher that human level AI was a fools quest. To be fair, we will both be long gone before anyone can possibly collect. Today we still are clueless on the basic structure to create it. We know more about what happened in the first picoseconds of the creation of the universe than the origin of mental processes in our heads.

 

[Sceadwian]

We know more about what happened in the first picoseconds of the creation of the universe than the origin of mental processes in our heads.

That's totally untrue, we know quiet a bit about the basics of thought processes, and with advances in functional MRI technology that particular branch of study is progressing quiet well, this doesn't mean we can functionally re-create anything yet or have any ability to do so in the near future but our understanding is quiet a bit more than you're indicating here.

As long as we don't blow the entire planet to hell or set back science 100 years within the next 1000 years we'll be either at or very near the ability to recreate something that can think like a human being. Just as long as we keep moving forward. True breakthrough science requires a very stable world in order to occur and not if but when something substantial occurs to destabilize that world progress in science is going to experience a hiccup, and it'll be a nasty one.

 

[nsaspook]

That's totally untrue, we know quiet a bit about the basics of thought processes, and with advances in functional MRI technology that particular branch of study is progressing quiet well, this doesn't mean we can functionally re-create anything yet or have any ability to do so in the near future but our understanding is quiet a bit more than you're indicating here.

All we see with these current detectors is the energy changes from a process that's indistinguishable from that of a dead fish unless we process it to some preset positive correlation.

https://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/09/fmrisalmon/
https://www.thestar.com/article/894831--obstacles-to-understanding-the-brain

“If we were to eavesdrop on the brain, we’d have no understanding of what it is saying, what the different areas are talking about and how that results in behaviour,” says Ravi Menon, Canada Research Chair in functional and molecular imaging and deputy scientific director at the University of Western Ontario’s Robarts Research Institute, who will be participating in the CRC conference Wednesday and Thursday at the Metro Toronto Convention Centre.

“You’d be correct in stating that we probably know more about what is happening in the universe than between our two ears.”

...

“It isn’t just going to be new technology” that achieves true and full understanding, says Goodale. “It’s going to be new ways of thinking about the brain, how it works, how neurons communicate, how ensembles of neurons represent the world and generate thought.”

Knowing brain anatomy does not mean knowing the mind.
**broken link removed**

One of the biggest pitfalls is the temptation to observe brain activity and make inferences about the psychological state—for example, to infer episodic memory retrieval from hippocampal activity, fear from amygdala activity, or visual processing from activity in the ‘visual cortex’ (Barrett & Wager, 2006; Poldrack, 2006; Wager et al., in press). These inferences ignore the scope of processes which may activate each of these areas and involve a fallacy in reasoning: “if memory then hippocampus” is not the same thing as “if hippocampus then memory.” The fact that few brain areas, including the ‘visual cortex,’ are dedicated to one process means that self-report is still the gold standard for assessing emotional experience and the contents of thought (Shuler & Bear, 2006). This is a serious challenge for those who would like, for example, to assess your brand preferences or your political affiliation from a brain scan. (And isn’t it easier just to ask?)

 

[neptune]

@nsaspook - your statements and links suggest that you havent Googled "Hirerachial temporal memory"
or go to youtube and type "Jeff Hawkins"

 

[nsaspook]

@nsaspook - your statements and links suggest that you havent Googled "Hirerachial temporal memory"
or go to youtube and type "Jeff Hawkins"

Are you joking? https://www.electro-tech-online.com/threads/current-state-of-automation.125122/#post1036715

Pattern recognition hype. As far away from real learning as the next star but it's very useful for simple tasks that other methods can handle just as well.

 

[neptune]

My video on Automation was about how it has permiated different sectors of society.
Do you know that only Service sector is the only sector remaining that gives majority of employment (85 %) rest of it is Automated. gone are the days when agriculture use to employ most of the people. in my country unfortunately it still does.
Think about it most of the work done by Humans in Service sector does not require intiutive thinking. once a AI is build that avoids physical obstacle and learns that will just start a wildfire in most basic jobs the humans do.

 

[nsaspook]

My video on Automation was about how it has permiated different sectors of society.
Do you know that only Service sector is the only sector remaining that gives majority of employment (85 %) rest of it is Automated. gone are the days when agriculture use to employ most of the people. in my country unfortunately it still does.
Think about it most of the work done by Humans in Service sector does not require intiutive thinking. once a AI is build that avoids physical obstacle and learns that will just start a wildfire in most basic jobs the humans do.

This might be something you find interesting. http://techresearch.intel.com/ProjectDetails.aspx?Id=118

 

[cowboybob]

Soooo,

How far off is SkyNet?

Us paranoids want to know...

 

[Sceadwian]

If processing ability continues to advance at it's current rate I'd say within the next thousand years easy. People laugh at this stuff, mainly because the chances of it happening within our own lifespans is laughable, one day (assuming again there are no major scientific or global stability setbacks) it will happen; exactly how it will happen is still way up in the air though! My bet is on there being global events within the next 20-200 years that will massively set back scientific advancement.

The world is filled with stupid sheeple, not even the top 1% of 1% of scientific intellects on this planet have any effect on politics.

 

[nsaspook]

The world is filled with stupid sheeple, not even the top 1% of 1% of scientific intellects on this planet have any effect on politics.

This is a good thing. A powerful Technocracy would lead to mass human slavery and elimination of excess populations in a generation. Having dumb, vain people in government insures that almost nothing will be done and people will have to fend for themselves as government becomes even less efficient.

 

[Sceadwian]

Lol, you assume the people that create and/or incubate technology control it! Ask the key creators of the atom bomb what they thought about it's first use. The next bomb won't be nearly so absolute, but it will end up being far more profound, the Internet as a communication medium is already very close, but that's still too easily controlled from governments.

The state of the art technology in communication 10 years ago can be had for anyone in a good technical college.

The daft are in control, and inherently always will be, because the masses will choke down both the extremely stupid and the extremely intelligent to protect themselves.

 

[nsaspook]

Lol, you assume the people that create and/or incubate technology control it! Ask the key creators of the atom bomb what they thought about it's first use. The next bomb won't be nearly so absolute, but it will end up being far more profound, the Internet as a communication medium is already very close, but that's still too easily controlled from governments.

I guess you misconstrued my comments. Hell yes, the people that create and incubate technology DON'T control it and that is as it should be.

I've heard the Technocrat yearnings before.

https://web.archive.org/web/20010412175953/http://www.technocracy.org/pamphlets/ecology-of-man.html

Man has also let his population increase to the point where it has become self-destructive. He must not only combat the other elements of the environment in order to survive, but he must battle within his own species to determine which individuals and which groups are to survive. No matter how one tries to rationalize the value of human life, one cannot escape the conclusion that there are just too many human beings on the earth.

They must institute a program of population control which will keep the population within the bounds of the long-range capacity of food, water, minerals and energy supplies. North America is not seriously overburdened with population at present, but it is gradually approaching that condition. The population of North America should not much exceed 200 million. No political party can touch these problems concerning the population, but science can find a ready answer.

 

[neptune]

You Americans have turned into pessimistic people. you both have taken this topic from science into Government policies.
it is the society which changes itself ... Govt. is there just to monitor things.
I heard you say it will take 1000 years .. man are you high on something illigal Do you know how much is 1000 years time.
Leave the future for future generations

 

[nsaspook]

You Americans have turned into pessimistic people. you both have taken this topic from science into Government policies.

Pragmatic is the word I would use.

I don't think the power of the human mind is static. The evolution of advanced machines will cause a speedup in human evolution in ways we can't possibly understand today. Automation is great until you have to manage hundreds/thousands of different types of machines at a typical large factory. Machines like people don't work forever and require constant maintenance/PMs to keep them in operation.

 

[cowboybob]

The Luddites had it wrong, of course. But there was an element of caution in their cause that bears considering.

Current genetic science, for instance, is very, very scary: way more than all others, to my way of thinking.

But, as has been pointed out, advancements in science (and technology as its physical manifestation), always carries risks that are, as often as not, poorly defined.

But never unexploited by those seeking power (read, government).

At any rate, as a generally realistic/optimistic, the human race, despite it's myriad failings, somehow or other has managed to advance over the millennia.

Despite governments.

Science and technology, as the hand maiden of government is inherently evil. as time has shown us.

I personally believe in a benevolent dictatorship, but only so long as I am the benevolent dictator. ALL other forms of government fall short.

But it is what it is.

So, pass me my iPad, please, while I order a Big Mac using OnStar on my way across this magnificent bridge on my way to the IMAX. THIS is the life..

For however long WE (the people of this earth) can keep it.

Just my thoughts.