College Degree: A Complete Waste so far

[Nigel Goodwin]

I know it's soul destroying sending off applications and not getting any reply (do you enclose a stamped addressed envelope with each application?), but companies often get hundreds (or thousands) of applications for each job, so probably only reply to a small percentage of them.

 

[quixotron]

I know it's soul destroying sending off applications and not getting any reply (do you enclose a stamped addressed envelope with each application?), but companies often get hundreds (or thousands) of applications for each job, so probably only reply to a small percentage of them.

Another thing...keywords. And who submits an application through letters nowadays?? Everythings done online. HR folks sift thru with keywords.

For instance, on my application, I type in RF, RFID, RDF and antennas. Bam i get two interviews a week and an offer every month. I'm not bragging what i'm saying is that you have to think like an HR. They dont have the time to get cuddly with someone's application. They just run the app thru a databse with keywords and that eliminates everything else.

alot of it has to do with keywords such as the field you're in and hot topics like RFID, wireless, etc.

 

[quixotron]

Yeah those analog engineers are really precious. I don't think I know anyone specializing in it. I chose to go power and control though. If I had to spend another 2 years at the university, the next thingn I would focus on would be RF/Optics- damn hard though! The one RF course I took so far was by far the hardest course I've ever taken- but somehow it's far FAR from my lowest grade in a course. I remembered it as being a B, but I'm looking at my transcript and apparently it's the highest mark I've ever gotten: A-!

I already have no idea how that happened when I thought it was a B. Now I really don't know.

I loved the electromagnetics course I took though but due to my interests (ie. things I can build at home for my robots) I chose control and power systems instead.

huh? no such thing here in the states, well at least at purdue. an A is an A. A B is a B. In most Rf courses and EM, there is no curve. Usually we'll get maybe 10-25 people sometimes. So you get what you get.

I heard soome schools dont give grades...strange.

 

[dknguyen]

huh? no such thing here in the states, well at least at purdue. an A is an A. A B is a B. In most Rf courses and EM, there is no curve. Usually we'll get maybe 10-25 people sometimes. So you get what you get.

I heard soome schools dont give grades...strange.

Well, by analog engineer I mean anyone who's actually working with RF circuits or analog filters, etc.and not someone who is programming, working with digital/switching circuitry, or fabrication methods etc.

 

[phil7890]

(various stuff)

DigiTan, if you have professors, church friends, neighbors, relatives, previous intern places/supervisors or know any person at companies you could be interested in, I suggest you use their help to refer you there. Print some cover letter and resumes, or put it on CD along with some project info/pictures. Keep this handy in case you have to hand it out on the spot. I think this is more effective than mass-mailing resumes on your own. I know you have some personal contacts in your job search but maybe should focus more on this method instead of mailing out resumes.

Since you already have an engineering degree (doesn't matter what GPA), you have met the requirement to be an engineer. After being hired, the rest is to work hard and intelligently with team work - to contribute to the company. A large percentage of people we hire (technical, factory, office, etc) are referrals because we'll kinda hold the guys here accountable if their friends don't work out. 1/2

Also I think most college graduates do not jump into R&D right away. You may have to start as a field engineer, applications engineer, sales engineer, quality engineer, support engineer, tech marketing engineer, etc. After a few years, move over to the design side. From looking at your website you appear to have very good technical abilities and communications skills - most college students don't have an elaborate website showing various projects.

I think your communications skill is a huge asset because many of us tech people can't write but we still try anyways. If you can give presentations in a small, medium or large setting, be sure to let them know too. Anyways I think you may want to use this communications skill (along with your tech skills) as a major plus when you meet them. Every company will have lots of suppliers and customers to talk to - and we all want the best ones to do the talking.

For those companies/people that you have previously approached, you may want to re-approach them again and indicate you can accept a wide range of engineering-related positions. Sometimes a letter/resume from a few months ago “has expired”. Hiring managers will naturally contact the candidates in the order of the newest ones received – so, I think you’ll want to give yourself some visibility and place yourself in the front row by contacting them again.

Later in your workplace, you can transfer over to the design side or whichever group you like, or stay in the current field. Good luck.

 

[jpanhalt]

We had electronic equipment that was serviced by the vendor. The field service engineer was most often trained to swap large sub-assemblies or boards, never to troubleshoot at the component level. Once in awhile, we got a really good service person who usually never returned. One of the good ones saved us over $4000 in 1980 dollars by suggesting the problem was just an IR sensor, which we took care of ourselves. So, I wondered why the good ones rarely returned. I don't think it was the way we treated them.

I was told by a friend in one of the vendor companies that field service engineers had a rotten life. Lots of travel, etc. It was basically a starting position and turn-over was high. Most important, the good ones got hired away, frequently by the clients. We offered one a job, but were outbid by another client company.

So, being a field engineer/instrument repair person might be viewed as a way to get a thorough interview at a place where you would really like to work. And BTW, we never once asked the GPA. Performance was the only measure.
John

 

[Hank Fletcher]

Instead, people take one look at me, or do their "background check" and that's the end of the fudging line for me.

What does a background check entail and, in your particular case, reveal?

Mmm... fudging line.

 

[Hank Fletcher]

Be wise and cash in your chips with dignity before you're left with nothing.

Ah, but dignity alone will never pay off your student loan, get a mortgage, or buy a ring for that special kind of girl who'll put up with an electronics nerd.

Rise up, brother. The only thing you need is a dose of hope. This time, as immediate as it may seem due to the frustration of it, will pass, and you'll persevere just as you've always done through the adversity in all the other times in your life.

What's bugging you is a new kind of thing, which in a strange way you should see as a kind of compliment. Before you graduated no one would hire you because you didn't have the qualifications, and you didn't think twice about it because like most reasonable people you figured it was a foregone conclusion: no qualifications = no job.

Now that you have the qualifications, you feel the kind of righteous indignation that everyone feels at some time in their career. I know this is a bit of a Job's comforter, but many people (including engineers like my Dad, the smartest guy I know) feel the injustice resulting from the conflict between their qualifications and the labour market even later in their careers. The early '90s was a terrible time for 50+ aged engineers to look for a new, lesser paying job. But they did what they had to do, and most got by not too bad because, well, that's what people do. Work -> Play -> Adversity -> Work -> Play -> Adversity -> Work -> Play... I'd be lying if I didn't tell you it's an endless cycle. Tough it out, it makes you stronger.

Whatsamatter? People don't read the ends of my posts? Still plenty of jobs up here in Canada for university grads, especially on the East Coast. If you feel the labour markets playing you, then play the market. If there are no jobs where you're at, look for jobs elsewhere. Dream about the life you want. Think about the life you want. Think about what you can do, right now, to move yourself towards your goal. Every resume you send out increases your odds, never forget that. You'll never make the basket if you just give up and don't shoot the hoop.

They taught you about electronics. Great. Did they teach you how to get a job? If your university was anything like mine were, job fairs and the like were a bit of a joke. I'm not going to base a serious life decision on what companies might have an interest in showing up at a job fair, anyway. But think about this: you're good at electronics, not at getting jobs. That's serious stuff. There are companies that make big money out of doing nothing more than hooking people up with jobs. That's who you're competing with. What's going to give you your edge? I've already suggested the easiest way for an individual to give himself the greatest advantage in the labour market: a willingness to relocate. It was true for the older engineers in the '90s, and it's still true today.

 

[quixotron]

Is there something in your background check that causes them to reject you?, you say people 'take one look', are you hideously deformed or something?.

When you have massive numbers of people applying for jobs, the chances are very high that you're not going to get it, assuming you get even as far as an interview.

Assuming you're well qualified for the job, polite, smart, and can actually DO the job, you've got a chance - but if 50 people beat you on all or most of those, then your chances are slim.

It might be just a matter of your attitude?, your posts on here don't display a very good attitude towards your lack of a job, perhaps that comes through during the interview process?.

his gpa probably. at purdue's job expo, there were recruiters that didnt even look at you unless you had a gpa above 3.25. one guy told me my gpa should be higher-i think it was the verizon guys, it was a 3.5, so I snatched my resume outta his hands in public.

sob! there are far more important things to consider then the gpa. i really feel for tan. bull$hit, i say!

 

[phalanx]

When I graduated in 2002 I had a solid 3.5 GPA but the job market was very bad for engineers (especially entry level ones) since so many experienced engineers were out of work. As a result of not being able to find engineering work, I taught high school for a year and then did house inspections for an insurance company for a year after that.

After 2 years of job searching I finally found a company that would give me a shot and I haven't looked back since.

Jobs in your field are not guaranteed so you have to be willing to do whatever it takes to keep yourself afloat until that time comes.

 

[kjennejohn]

Yeah, been there, done that, wanna see the scars?

So, you can't get hired? Your GPA is not real good. You're the wrong race, color, complexion, attitude. Welcome to the real world. In the real world, a good day is where you eat, avoid getting eaten, procreate, and die peacefully in your sleep. Today, millions will not have a good day. And yet, the rain will fall, the Sun will shine and the grass will grow. Life endures.

Now, having rained on your picnic, let me say: I feel for you. I got my AS in Electronics in the Bay Area in 1979. Life was grand. I would always have an interesting, well paying job.

NNO-O-OTTTT! When I graduated, the electronics field in the bay area was hotter then a machine gun on D-Day. I easilly found jobs within 25 miles of my home, which was north of San Francisco. Now, the good, interesting jobs are 50 to 60 miles out in Silicon Valley. The first eye opener was when, after losing my first job just two years out of college, I sat six months without a job. And not for lack of trying. I hit the employment office, checked the want ads, haunted my college job board, and called previous near-employers. The one thing I didn't do was network among my friends, as I am something of a loaner. In the end, my brother, a programmer, got me in to see an engineer who was looking for someone with digital experience - despite the fact they already had four technicians! I got the job because the other guys couldn't be bothered to learn about 68000 processors, they were died-in-the-wool Z80 fanatics.
Now I am approaching 60, and caring for my ailing mother, so am not free to move closer to the hot spots, like Raleigh, NC, or San Diego, CA. And age counts for a lot, as no one wants to hire you, spend a year or two to train you into the job, only to lose you to retirement in less than ten years.

I have found in the long run networking and contacts did more for me than want ads, hiring outfits, and web job searches. A former employer was looking for a junior engineer to work in my department (warning! warning! junior engineers can now be hired for the wages of a lowly technician!!). After two months of listening to HR moaning no one would come in for a second interview (yeah, they sucked), I found the winning candidate. She was managing a local Radio Shack. After six months, she gave up trying to find a "suitable position", and signed on with RS as a counter person, then quickly wedged herself into the manager's spot. My company immediately snapped her up. She did documentation. She was still doing docs six months later when I got the boot. She eventually went on to a real job, for an aerospace company. She was Filipino. Does this close any switches for you?

Along the way, I tried to get a job with BART, the Bay Area Rapid Transit people. They run the local commute trains in the bay area. I sat at a table with two supervisors and about twenty other applicants. I and one (rather aged) supervisor were the only caucasians in the room. I was the oldest applicant by 10 to 15 years. I think I did OK on the test. I never got the followup call.

My brother spent four years in college. He is incredibly intelligent. He started college looking for a degree in physics. Every spring his counselors told him what the hot jobs were, so he tailored his courses for those fields. In the end he came out a nuclear engineer, when nuclear was becoming a dirty word. He spent a year and a half looking for a job, any job. He couldn't get a job loading boxes at a wharehouse because he was "over qualified". He tried to borrow $40 from me so he could get a starter kit of deodorants so he could sell door to door. He found a temporary job with the Coast Guard evaluating the flotation characteristics of different foams. He hit pay dirt when he got a job with the Navy working on nuclear subs. He eventually taught himself programming. After that, he never went begging for a job, they came looking for him. Now he's in Germany, programming Linux drivers for new electronics hardware for a living. If it wasn't for bad investments he would be sitting very pretty indeed.

So, you're not happy that the brass ring has eluded you so far and you fear the merry-go-round may stop before you get it. Get a job at Radio Shack, print up lots of business cards (put your bulleted points of experience on the back), and next time I'm out your way, I'll see what I can do for you. Just don't throw in the towel quite yet.

In the mean time, thank God that this is your biggest problem while real tragedy stalks the world.
kenjj

 

[Moisff]

When speaking to one of my lecturers they said that you could get a job in most engineering vocations (with some exceptions) with a solid grade. The employers are looking for your capacity to learn rather than the specific subject that you're doing. So maybe apllying for a post grad wouldn't be a bad option. If you're based in texas i'm sure there'll be plenty of Oil companies that should be willing to take you on. If not their then Houston.

I'm sure you could lend your hand to data acquistion and communications. There's parts of that, that crossover into electrical

 

[mneary]

I was fortunate. Graduated BSEE in 1971, a few short months after the last flight to the moon. No jobs. None advertised, no interviews. Friends getting layoff notices. A friend got me a part time job watching a hilltop TV transmitter (look up wnpi or South Colton, NY) until the Army took me. 5 months after returning, I finally got a real job.

 

[rjvh]

hello digi tan i read this thread and also read your "thinking of giving up thread" and i conclude that you're realy frustrated with the whole situation

your spinning in a negative spiral and finaly you get bitter (i think you are already on this point)and I hope not for you you hit a depression

i do have to hire people my self for projects and i can say one thing the way a person feels is easy to detect (YOU DO REFLECT HOW YOU'RE FEELING) and this is probably that you don't sucseed in the interviews

break that spiral down and go up
you have to fight the toughest oponent now and that is yourself
you still blame it on your grades your race or the profesors or something else but you

but it's you that stops you from being sucsesfull

i don't know your age but my self had also a hard time when i was 25 years old and i know for sure that there many others having the same

you will never apriciate the high's in life when you don't know the low's

just think for your self a bit and ask the question what is realy importand for you and than the way to achieve it
you're spending now energie on things that don't help you to achieve your goal (if you set that goal already ?????)

i battled through my though times and it makes me now sucsesful because i found the ways and attitude to take on every problem on my path

and you can do the same

Good luck

Robert-Jan

 

[DigiTan]

Who's the sniveling scumbag who deleted my second post? Watching my life fall apart wasn't enough for you? Now you've come for my liberties? I suppose if I made a trade of praying on the unfortunate, I'd lack the guts to explain myself too.


Before this goes in the trash, I should say I found a part-time job at Radio Shack. Not that it helps any because it barely pays 3/5ths my living expenses. My manager's an over-critical nitwit who belittles his new employees for asking new employee questions. This guy thinks Volts and Hz are the same thing for crying out loud. And huge irony is it all cuts into my job search.

I signed up for a couple non-drug, non-invasive medical studies. I figure that will cover my food & job hunt budget. Between that and weekly plasma donations, I'd essentially be getting free medical check-ups indefinitely.

Anyway, I spent all week working on a portfolio CD that was suggested. Now I just need the money for labeling that these lazy recruiters will notice. It would be decent to answer the phone and have good news for once.
**broken link removed**

 

[Nigel Goodwin]

Who's the sniveling scumbag who deleted my second post? Watching my life fall apart wasn't enough for you? Now you've come for my liberties? I suppose if I made a trade of praying on the unfortunate, I'd lack the guts to explain myself too.

Your post was deleted for it's foul language - and your current behaviour is heading for a permanent ban as well!.

Bad language and abuse will NOT be tolerated on these forums!.

Moderator.

 

[phalanx]

Who's the sniveling scumbag who deleted my second post? Watching my life fall apart wasn't enough for you? Now you've come for my liberties? I suppose if I made a trade of praying on the unfortunate, I'd lack the guts to explain myself too.

Perhaps your attitude is interfering with your interviews.

 

[Torben]

Who's the sniveling scumbag who deleted my second post? Watching my life fall apart wasn't enough for you? Now you've come for my liberties? I suppose if I made a trade of praying on the unfortunate, I'd lack the guts to explain myself too.

"Liberties"? I'm no Constitutional scholar (hell, I'm not even American) but I'm pretty sure postings on internet forums are not covered.

Anyway, good luck with the job and hopefully it allows you to hang in there long enough to get closer to what you're looking for. I just hope your manager at Radio Shack isn't reading this board.


Good luck,

Torben

 

[Salgat]

How is the market for Computer Engineers? As far as EEs, is there always a state that has them in high demand? Do other countries hire American engineers often?

 

[DigiTan]

Perhaps your attitude is interfering with your interviews.

Only if professionalism counts as interference. I'm only venting here. The wolf is at my door. I've got unpayable bills that could span a parking space. I came within a day of having my power shut off Friday and parted ways with much-needed books and Christmas gifts to come up with the cash. The injustice of the whole mess is just getting to me. Spend your whole life working hard and playing by the rules and where does it get you? Given that, plus all the other thrills of poverty, I'd say I'm scheduled for the occasional non-violent outburst.

As for the 'liberty' part, most would say it's a right with or without a constitution. When an entire message that was 99.9% unoffensive gets deleted with no explanation, I have to speculate. No hard feeling toward Nigel.

How is the market for Computer Engineers? As far as EEs, is there always a state that has them in high demand? Do other countries hire American engineers often?

They say these jobs are expanding 5%. But then, I trust the government about as far as I can throw it. I'm going to start looking overseas this month.

I'll keep trying, but this job "search" is ruining my good nature. It's not even a search anymore, it's just runaround. I've 3 years worth of personal goals mapped out...but this one little thing is stopping me. I'm dying of thirst and my canteen won't open.