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Climategate: "Hide the Decline"

Discussion in 'Members Lounge' started by ke5frf, Dec 11, 2009.

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  1. ke5frf

    ke5frf New Member

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    Has anyone sold their Carbon Credit stock yet?

    IPCC and the “Trick” Climate Audit [Welcome to our new home!]

    Open Letter to Steve McIntyre: The 'Highest Order Bit' of Climategate is being ignored by Scientists – WHY?

    I only recently caught wind of this. Go check out the pretzel-logic and word-smithing going on at "RealClimate.org". Even in midst of the house of cards tumbling to the floor, the arrogance is amazing.

    I've said this before. I believe climate change is real, has a human influence, and responsible mitigation over the short and long term is in order. But economics is equally important. The evidence is here. The top scientist involved have cast their ethics aside to play the role of activist, overplaying the certainties and misrepresenting the accuracies of the data in order to establish political power and engineer tax-payer funded policy to their geo-socialist ends.

    Truly amazing.
     
  2. jpanhalt

    jpanhalt Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    I think your final paragraph is right on and would add that there apparently is an enormous publication bias in favor of the activists, unlike anything I experienced in my 40+ years in academia.

    John
     
  3. tcmtech

    tcmtech Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    I know climate change is real but that doesn't make it bad either, its just like a persons body changes as we age.
    The earth is a dynamic and energetic system that is never constant but rather always slowly changing. The possibility of it changing slightly doesn't mean its getting worse it just means it changing slightly and slowly as it always has and always will. ;)

    What I see in these articles is several graphs showing a ESTIMATED change or variation of +-.5 C or less over a very long time period.
    Even with the proper "FILTERING", "ADJUSTMENTS" and 'RECONSTRUCTIVE REINTERPRETATIONS" made the graphs still cant top a +- .5 C variation. :D

    (For comparing .5 C is about the lower limit of your skins ability to perceive a change in temperature. That perceived temperature variation is being applied to a planetary size of scale covering a tens of centuries time scale. )

    To me none of this data proves or shows anything useful. The estimated variations are still below the nominal data noise floor and error values of the present system of data collection being used. When the data collection methods have a real error level of +- 2 C any estimated data that is below that tolerance level is not relevant or accurate. Its basically just reading between the lines and saying you see what you want to see. The Eco-tards, environmental politicians, and 'green is good' scam artists are loosing ground and they know it! :) :D



    We humans just dont make a big enough mess to count in the planetary size and time scales as of yet. I do think that being more responsible in how we use and mange our resources is very important. However all the time, money, and effort that has been wasted so far on global warming, cooling, climate change and other made up scaremongering could have been put to far better use in actually making our lives more efficient and less wasteful. :)
     
  4. dave

    Dave New Member

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  5. ke5frf

    ke5frf New Member

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    I'm not even concerned or worried about the truth or fiction of climate change tcmtech, it is the ethical implications and abuse of the title "scientist" that troubles me. It has long been warned by philosophers that science is an institution that is easily enslaved by government masters. Sometimes ambition clouds judgement. Look Werner Von Braun during WWII. A brilliant German scientist who led the way into the era of space exploration, man's most noble venture of science...but he piggy-backed his research where the funding gave him opportunity and promptly took up service with the allies post-war. I am casting no dispersions here, BTW, toward a legendary scientist who contributed much. I'm sure he had unease about his Nazi affiliation. But the fact that he served his government master in the pursuit of his passion is nothing to ignore. History repeats itself.
     
  6. rmn_tech

    rmn_tech Member

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    If you were standing in the south of what is now England 70,000 years ago you would be in the middle of a tropical rain forest. In the terms of global time not much earlier than that you would freeze to death in an ice age. There were no humans around then so what caused it to warm up ??? The globe has warmed and cooled many many times in it's lifetime so far, without the assistance of us lowly humans.

    I stated in a post a couple of years ago that if we all use less energy then energy prices would rise. (I hate to say it but I told you so.)

    I don't particularly do anything to recycle or save energy as I live High up and the view from my windows shows sometimes as many as 5 cars in one night being burnt out by the young idiots that call it joy riding. One car burning out would cancel out any carbon I could save in years. If the young idiot thieves can't be bothered to save the planet for themselves. Why should I bother.
     
  7. tcmtech

    tcmtech Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Most science is based on bought knowledge and can easily be swayed by what ever person or group has the money and power and that dictates where the science goes. :mad:

    In real science the numbers always have to add up and every detail is accounted for before anything is proclaimed true.
    In politics and business the results are often proclaimed to be true before the first number was ever put on paper let alone scrutinized and studied it is only after that that the equations and tests are done so as to make sure they have numbers to match those results. :mad:

    Our American government and business systems are two examples known world wide for how money and those who have it will dictate what they want to be seen as right or wrong regardless of the real truth for better or for worse that may be behind it. :mad:

    At one time religion held the position of being the top hand that dictated who did what and what should be believed by the masses. Science is just the new non denominational religion that is still blindly followed by those too, brainwashed, simple, lazy, or afraid to think for themselves or to look and see if whats being told to them is true or not.:mad:

    I've studied the real sources of information and seen how and what is used to make the numbers that the scientists use and the politicians and clueless tree hugging Eco tard half wits twist around to proclaim they are right. What scares me the most is that what they say is right and good continually proving itself to be far more ecologically damaging and stinks worse than any open pit land fill ever has or ever will. :mad:

    Fortunately people are beginning to wise up and go and learn for themselves what is true and what is not. And what they are finding is that those who pay for the power to dictate are often far worse for our world than what they are preaching against which may or may not even actualy exist! :)
     
  8. BrownOut

    BrownOut Banned

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    There is no climate gate. The stuff being pimped was obtained by hacking a computer at the Climate Research Unit, cherry-picked, distorted and disseminated by conspiracy theorists. Much of the excerpts were taken out of context, for example, "hiding" doesn't mean deceptively withholding information, in scientific jargon. Rather, it referees to the not using data that may diverge for reasons other then the phonomena being discussed. Similarly "trick" is just a way to describe a method to deal with a difficult issue, not a way to deceive. In fact, none of these "revelations" are anything new, as the data has been available since 1998. It's the brainwashed, lazy and unthinking that buys conspiracy theories based on stolen, trumped up and exaggerated misinformation. This is just one more illustration of how far the war on science will go and how deceptive, dishonest, duplicitous and capricious those who hate science are. When someone substitutes name calling for science, he's not making a scientific argument, he's trying to make a play on emotions. Not good for science, not good for anyone.

    Simply put, as far as climate gate goes, there is no "there" there.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2009
  9. ke5frf

    ke5frf New Member

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    Brownout, you do realize that this reply is practically a cut and paste of talking points put out by Gavin Schmidt on RealClimate.org and Al Gore, right?

    Whose being brainwashed? And BTW, I don't call it a conspiracy. It is biased research, a well known phenomenon called "Biased Confirmation" where results that negate a theory are questioned and scrutinized with more detail than the results that confirm, leaving confirmation the trump because of the bias.

    Its the fearmongerers who fail to think for themselves.
     
  10. BrownOut

    BrownOut Banned

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    The post I made were all my words, not a shread was "cut and paste" I've never cut and pasted any work on any discussion group or any blog, and I never well. Neither have I ever plagerized any work from anyone else, so you are making an utterly false and phony accusation. It does demonstrate something interesting about those who oppose the science, when confronted with truth, they resort to personal attacks, name calling and phony accusations. It says more about the person writing the personal attacts then about the quality of the science.

    It is certainly a conspiracy theory, the info was hacked, stolen and distorted. There is no science behind any of it, and the brainwashed are those who accept it without even knowing where it came from.

    Also, even though the "hidden" data was excluded from some of the graphs, it was published in the jounals of climate change and have been availble for 10 years now. Why would anyone publish data they want to hide? It's total nonsense.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2009
  11. jpanhalt

    jpanhalt Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    And what is your evidence the e-mails were obtained by hacking or theft? Have you ruled out that it was a whistle-blower?

    Moreover, I have been in academics probably as long as you have been. So far as I know, the word "hide" has only one meaning in the context of scientific papers. Can you provide any credible substantiation for the definition that you claim exists, such as from the CBE or elsewhere?

    John
     
  12. BrownOut

    BrownOut Banned

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    It wasn't a whistle blower. You linked data without even knowing where it came from. You're problem, not mine. Google is your friend.

    Hide has many definitions. I ask again, why would anyone publish data they want to keep hidden?
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2009
  13. ke5frf

    ke5frf New Member

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    You do realize that cut and paste is not a literal term here, right?
    Generally, when someone is referring to talking points, they are describing "puppeting", not plagiarism (that's how it is spelled BTW).

    Seriously, think for yourself, and that isn't a personal attack.
     
  14. ke5frf

    ke5frf New Member

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    Yes, I would love to see a peer-reviewed document where "hide" or "hiding" is used in an ambiguous "jargon" or "science-speak" that means anything other than "hide".

    This is Bill Clinton 101, my goodness. The bad thing is he got away with the "is is" business. (Shaking my head)
     
  15. jpanhalt

    jpanhalt Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    What link?

    Please provide a real link to the primary data to which you refer as later being "hidden."

    John
     
  16. BrownOut

    BrownOut Banned

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    Seriously, I do think for myself. I think it is you who has the problem of puppeting. You link a buch of nonsense then accuse anyone who writes a original, well thought out opposition peice of cut and paste. I don't care what how you want to back track now, you've already shown you are capable of making false and irrseponsible accusations. What else are you capable of, eh? BTW, rather than a spelling contest, how about trying to say what you mean and mean what you say? I don't copy other's works, I don't parrot Al Gore or anyone else. I think for myself. You should try it sometimes.
     
  17. ke5frf

    ke5frf New Member

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    From Webster's online:
    hide 1 (hd)
    v. hid (hd), hid·den (hdn) or hid, hid·ing, hides
    v.tr.
    1. To put or keep out of sight; secrete.
    2. To prevent the disclosure or recognition of; conceal: tried to hide the facts.
    3. To cut off from sight; cover up: Clouds hid the stars.
    4. To avert (one's gaze), especially in shame or grief.
    v.intr.
    1. To keep oneself out of sight.
    2. To seek refuge.
    Phrasal Verb:
    hide out
    To be in hiding, as from a pursuer: The gangsters hid out in a remote cabin until it was safe to return to the city.

    Please put a check mark by the one that most applies here.
     
  18. jpanhalt

    jpanhalt Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Which you are you (BrownOut) referring to? Please pardon the grammar.

    John
     
  19. BrownOut

    BrownOut Banned

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    Googel "divergence problem" and you'll get a treasure trove of data on the supposed "hidden" data, much predating the hacked information. Nothing was ever hidden.
     
  20. BrownOut

    BrownOut Banned

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    The poster who assumed that I wasn't thinking for myself. Not you.
     
  21. ke5frf

    ke5frf New Member

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    The very first person on this thread that accused someone else of not thinking of themselves was you, sir. Now the spinning begins.
     
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