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Analog Meter

Discussion in 'General Electronics Chat' started by windozeuser, Sep 7, 2005.

  1. tvtech

    tvtech Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Hi Guys

    My first post on these Forums. I could not help but ad my 2 cents worth to this thread.

    I have been a TV Tech for many years and despite many other techs I know I have stuck steadily to an Analogue meter for fault finding and testing transistor and diode forward biasing. The reason is simple:

    An Analogue meter tends to load the semiconductor junction being tested for forward bias with a few Milliamps of current and will provide an accurate indication if the junction is failing or has become thermally compromised.

    A Digital meter cannot be trusted for this as it in no way actually puts any current through the junction. You get a beep and the Digital meter reports all is OK.

    In this specific arena, the Analogue meter wins hands down.

    Anybody else had this experience and consistently trusts an Analogue over Digital for junction testing?

    Cheers and thanks
     
  2. Reloadron

    Reloadron Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    I still cling to my older Simpson 260 & 270 series meters as well as my old Simpson 269. I just have always felt better checking semi conductor devices using them. Additionally when it comes to pulses with a slow repetition rate short of a scope I like my analog meters. Consider the Simpson 260 series VOM is still widely marketed today. Obviously the demand is there as after all these years they still manufacture it.

    [​IMG]

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    I just feel it is best to have both when it comes to hand held meters where the best meter can be chosen for the application.


    Just My Take
    Ron
     
  3. tvtech

    tvtech Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Hey Ron

    Nice equipment!!!

    I use a Yokogawa 100K Ohms/volt taut band meter. Accuracy on DC Volts was 1 percent. Had it around 16 Years and it's still going strong. Was is a car accident with it in 1998 where the meter was in the boot (in it's case) and the spare wheel smashed into it. Nothing broke on the meter but it is not as accurate anymore.

    I trust it 100% for testing junctions. Tells me the truth everytime.

    Cheers
     
  4. dave

    Dave New Member

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  5. kiriakos-gr

    kiriakos-gr Member

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    Well just few months back I got this monster from the German ebay ..

    An BBC Goerz Metrawatt MA4S

    Its an special version , specially made to measure mains with the ultimate protection,
    it has inside even cut-off relays .. yes it does :)
    I liked more the Amperes range from low to Max , its an true gift .

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    Last edited: Aug 8, 2010
  6. Reloadron

    Reloadron Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Nice find and minty looking meter. Enjoy it.

    Ron
     
  7. Mikebits

    Mikebits Well-Known Member

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    I am a big fan of the Simpson 260. Used it in the Navy.
     
  8. Reloadron

    Reloadron Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Hi Mike, I think the US Navy had two meters, The Simpson 260 and the PSM4D. :)

    While working DoD I did two cruises on the then brand new USS Eisenhower training the new sailors in the ships AIMD areas. They had a box with literally pieces and parts from hundreds of 260s. I made it a cruise project where we all built good working meters from that box so they could learn. :)

    Ron
     
  9. Mikebits

    Mikebits Well-Known Member

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    I spent my cruises on gator freighters, amphib Navy. Never had the opportunity to learn from smart DOD civilians such as yourself.
     
  10. Reloadron

    Reloadron Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    They seldom put us on the smaller cruisers. That sort of sucked.

    Ron
     
  11. tvtech

    tvtech Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    This is a thread that I love. Simply because I used Flukes (mine was a 77.... ) for fault finding in my earlier days. Until a maestro proved to me me that an Analogue Meter is better at testing Semiconductor junctions.

    An Analogue Meter always tells the truth. A Digital meter does not.

    You are welcome to dispute my post.....before you do that try and reason why I still use my YEW (Analogue) daily and my Fluke 77 resides in my toolbox and gets used maybe twice a year.

    And I have been fixing TV's for a while now. Probably not as long as Nigel :p though.:D

    Cheers folks
     
  12. kiriakos-gr

    kiriakos-gr Member

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    I am on the other side of the river ... :)
    More than one, are an better experience .
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    Its more an picture just for fun, than comparison of accuracy .
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    Or ..
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    Speaking about accuracy .. with a portable calibrator .
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    close up ..
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    I know that I am crazy , and I am looking to find technicians equally crazy as me.
    Lets say " Tools maniacs " :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2010
  13. Reloadron

    Reloadron Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    I still have a few Fluke 8050 DMMs. Those are 20+ years old and I can't recall when I last used one. :)

    Ron
     
  14. kiriakos-gr

    kiriakos-gr Member

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    Well, if they are still alive , its because they use Vishay Dale components . ;)

    My current active project are totally related to analog multimeters ,
    I liked to have my own reference resistors box .. 0.1% accuracy
    0.10 Ohm - 999.999 Ohms .
    Plus an reference 10V DC voltage source ..
    It will take me about three more days to finish it, today I had completed the front panel.
    The switches are 10 positions, gold plated (avionics stuff )
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    Last edited: Aug 9, 2010
  15. Reloadron

    Reloadron Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    I have a few old GR (Gen Rad) decade resistor boxes I seldom have a need to use anymore but they are around if the need arises. I also have a Unimat MVX for a pretty accurate current and voltage source. Nice job so far on the decade resistance box, it is looking real nice.

    Ron
     
  16. kiriakos-gr

    kiriakos-gr Member

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    I was holding my breath at any marking and hole that I did , so all of them came, as perfect ones.. :)
     
  17. tvtech

    tvtech Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Nice tools. Do you ever get a chance to know them all (and their quirks)?

    Personally, I use literally a handful of quality stuff (tools) for day to day repairs. My income is directly based on my productivity. I trust the Devil(s) I know inside out.

    Just me

    Cheers
     
  18. kiriakos-gr

    kiriakos-gr Member

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    Every meter that I own , has something special on it as function, or its about size and productivity , or combining power as I called it , for multiple measurements , circuitry monitoring with many meters in use.
    Yes, I am aware of my meters , I spent the time to print and read the Users manual.
    Even at my 42 , there is always interesting info hidden in the Users manuals.
     
  19. The Electrician

    The Electrician Active Member

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    I checked the forward bias current applied during the diode test function by 4 DMMs I have access to:

    Fluke 187 -- 2 mA
    Yokogawa TY720 -- 1.2 mA
    Gossen Metrawatt 29s -- 1.4 mA
    Cheapo Radio Shack -- 1.5 mA

    Maybe when the maestro of your earlier days showed what he showed you, DMMs behaved differently. Nowadays, all the DMMs I've had occasion to use apply a few mA for the diode test.

    A statement such as "A Digital meter cannot be trusted for this as it in no way actually puts any current through the junction.", apparently intended to apply to all DMMs, just isn't true these days.
     
  20. kiriakos-gr

    kiriakos-gr Member

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    In my eyes the superiority of the analog meters VS cheap digitals,
    are that they can detect small spikes ( in volts or amperes) .
    At the point that the cheap digital will strangle between the limited digits and display refresh rate , the analog will show the spike.

    Only very expensive DDM with data logging will display spikes , and record them properly .

    The Min Max function does the same , but has some worth , only in the good quality of meters = expensive ones.

    I am full of weapons ... so no complains here .
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2010
  21. tvtech

    tvtech Well-Known Member Most Helpful Member

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    Hey and Hi. You are using DMM's to test the "current flow" through a forward biased Semiconductor junction as per above.

    I say again that DMM's canno't and are not able to accurately "load" a forward biased junction that has gone faulty. Without the obvious 'no beep" as in open or "beeeeep" as in shorted junction. That's it. Absolutely nothing in between.

    If you really want me to start on stuff here we could have a thread as long as my leg. And frankly I do not have time for that.

    Take it for the truth that an Analogue meter NEVER lies when testing forward biased junctions. Use it on X1 on Ohms and learn to know the Analogue meter with readings on good junctions that are forward biased by your Meter. The meter can be a cheap Analogue. You will pick up very quickly when a junction looks suspect.

    Beep, beep or no beep is to easy with Digital. You have to be doing electronic repairs for as long as I have to absolutely trust Analogue meters for the truth they speak. No beeping with Analogue, just understand what you are doing. And you will fix the problem quicker than your Digital bench tech. Sitting next to you. Every time.

    Cheers and good luck
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2010

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