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AC flowing through a cap. What actually happens?

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Great point. He has the right to butcher the language all he wants, then lectrues everyone else on 'proper' usage, even though his version isn't any more proper. Everone has to play by his rules, everyone except him that is.

Also note that in his world, e fields exist in equipotentials.
 
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misterT,

Ratchit, how would you correct this sentence: "Conventional current flows in the opposite direction as the electrons"?

Conventional current exists in the direction opposite from the electron flow.

How can you be thinking something so ridiculous like "charge flow flow" when people are talking about the direction and path of charge flow?

Folks should just refer to it as simply charge flow and add descriptives from there. Back/forward charge flow, less/more charge flow, charge flow through a resistor, etc. Also, back/forward current, more/less current, current through a resistor, etc. But don't use both current and flow together.

You cannot use phrases as mathematical equations and replace words mechanically with another definiton.

Not always, but sometimes yes. Words are amenable to their meaning being supplemented by adjectives and adverbs, even if it doesn't make sense. Remember "space walk"?

Did I have to come all the way from Finland to tell you this

No, I have had a good academic education.

I don't even speak English natively.

I know. Otherwise you would have said "Conventional current flows in the opposite direction from the electrons".

By the way, how does "current flow" differ from "voltage travel" as a descriptive colloquial phrase: https://www.electro-tech-online.com/g...tml#post949608 ]

"Current flow" contains a redundancy while "voltage travel" does not. I should have said "establish itself" instead of travel.

Ratch
 
BrownOut,

Great point. He has the right to butcher the language all he wants, then lectrues everyone else on 'proper' usage, even though his version isn't any more proper. Everone has to play by his rules, everyone except him that is.

What an exaggeration! Using a colloquial expression is not "butchering" the English language. Objecting to a word or phrase being used, and explaining why is perfectly proper. I don't have any rules anyone has to play by. You should pay more attention to your typos.

Also note that in his world, e fields exist in equipotentials.

I challenge you to show where I did not know the difference between a scalar field and a vector.

Ratch
 
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I didn't say anything about exaggeration. Your descriptions are wrong, colloquial BS aside, which has no place in a technical discussion. It's utterly hypocritical to use incorrect language, no matter how you excuse it, while thinking you need to correct the language of others. And I haven't pointed out your typos because I haven't wanted yet another path to lose focus. Leave it to you to find another way to derail any topic.
 
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I guess I did miss something. Did you energize them with the correct current at the correct voltage for the corect period of time?

Ratch

Looks like you can be more careful with your typos too. Or else cease obsessing over every else's minor errors, while you make exactly the same mistakes.

I challenge you to show where I did not know the difference between a scalar field and a vector.

Why should I accept that challege, when I never make any such claim?
 
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I have just found and scanned this thread.

I'm sure the OP will have been thoroughly confused by it.

I presume that terms & concepts such as current, current flow, charge and discharge, etc. were coined in the 19th century by people such as Gauss, Faraday, Maxwell, etc. These terms & concepts have been accepted by thousands of us since.

I daresay that they knew of the shortcomings of these terms and concepts.

I suspect that when the physicists derive the "theory of everything", some of these concepts & terms will need to be revised.

For example, if string theory proves to be correct, then current may be shown to be a flow of strings.

I say this because the concept of current flow being the flow of charge carriers does not cover the concept of displacement current.

I believe this concept is derived from Maxwell's equations which, as I understand it, show that there is a displacement current through the dielectric of a capacitor even though there is no flow of charge carriers inside the dielectric: note that the dielectric could be a vacuum.

This raises the question in my mind - why do we need a conductor to carry current?

Obviously the charge carriers in the conductor play a role of some kind.

I'll leave the answers to these questions to minds that are greater than mine.
 
"Current flow" contains a redundancy while "voltage travel" does not. I should have said "establish itself" instead of travel.
Ratch

"Current flow" does not contain redundancy. It does not mean "charge flow flow". Maybe I need to repeat the point of my last post because you seemed to miss it:

misterT said:
In "current flow" the word "flow" refers to the smooth continuity (direction and path) of the current.
 
Originally Posted by misterT
In "current flow" the word "flow" refers to the smooth continuity (direction and path) of the current.


Thanks Mr.T. I agree completely. There is no redundancy. Your understanding of current and language is on point.
 
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misterT,

"Current flow" does not contain redundancy. It does not mean "charge flow flow". Maybe I need to repeat the point of my last post because you seemed to miss it:

Current already means the smooth continuity (direction and path) of the charge. It doesn't have to be repeated.

Ratch
 
ljcox,

This raises the question in my mind - why do we need a conductor to carry current?

You don't. A current exists just fine from the gun to the screen of a CRT containing a vacuum.

Ratch
 
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misterT,



Current already means the smooth continuity (direction and path) of the charge. It doesn't have to be repeated.

Ratch

That's false. Current is only a measure of an amount of charge passing a point per unit length of time. Current does not imply smooth continuity. Charge movement is anything but smooth.

Further, current doesn't say anything about direction or path. That's why direction must be specified along with the current. And current is defined at a single point, so no path is implied.
 
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Current already means the smooth continuity (direction and path) of the charge. It doesn't have to be repeated.

So you think that "current path" is also redundant?
 
ljcox,



You don't. A current exists just fine from the gun to the screen of a CRT containing a vacuum.

Ratch

True, but that is a flow of charge carriers.

There is no flow of charge carriers with Displacment current.
 
misterT,

So you think that "current path" is also redundant?

No, I agree current has a path and direction. Whatever it is can be specified. For instance, "current through this coil", "reverse current", etc. However, "current flowing" is redundant because current is already defining a flowing charge.

Ratch
 
ljcox,

True, but that is a flow of charge carriers.

There is no flow of charge carriers with Displacment current.

True. Ideal dielectrics do not contain free charges, but they do contain bound charges. An external electric field can induce electric dipoles with the bound charges of the material which in turn will modify the electric field both inside and outside of the dielectric material. I am not going to try to explain how that happens. I refer you to a good book on electromagnetics and this link. Displacement current - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ratch
 
Originally Posted by Ratchit
current has a path and direction

Wrong again. Current is a scaler quantity, and as such, has no path or direction. You just proved what you challenged me to prove earlier.
 
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ljcox,



True. Ideal dielectrics do not contain free charges, but they do contain bound charges. An external electric field can induce electric dipoles with the bound charges of the material which in turn will modify the electric field both inside and outside of the dielectric material. I am not going to try to explain how that happens. I refer you to a good book on electromagnetics and this link. Displacement current - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ratch
Where are the bound charges in a vacuum?

According to the Wikipedia link the displacemnt current is due to the changing electric field.
 
ljcox,

Where are the bound charges in a vacuum?

There aren't any. A perfect vacuum is "free space".

According to the Wikipedia link the displacement current is due to the changing electric field.

Which is caused by the polarization of the dielectric molecules. Did you follow the second link from the previous link to **broken link removed**) ?

Ratch
 
Dispacement current exists in free space. No charge carrier is required for displacement current. No polarization of any dielectric molecule is required. Dispalcement current exists without charge carriers. You should try reading the links you provide.
 
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Hello again,


Ratch:
You seemed to have missed post #79.
The point there is that even after we qualify 'energize' with a success, we can not tell something important about the battery that we can when we use the word 'charge'.
You really need to read that post again but i'll repeat part of it here:

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In the case of 'energize', did we successfully store energy in the battery or not? We cant tell even though we stated that the battery did in fact 'energize'.
In the case of 'charge', we were able to tell that the battery successfully stored energy because once we qualify that with a 'success' there's only one way to take it.

Both forms have been "acknowledged with a successful accomplishment" so your argument that they were not is void.

So when we use the word 'energize' we actually say LESS than when we use the word 'charge'.
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