A Few Questions Abount Short Wave Radio Receiving And Receivers

[MrAl]

Hello,

It's been a long time since i played around with short wave radio. I have a few questions because i was thinking of getting a new radio to again listen to some SW stations from the North Eastern part of the USA. Im interested in reception only and not transmitting.
I'd appreciate hearing any thoughts, comments, or tips about the topics to follow. I'm hoping to hear from people that have SW radios already and so have experience with them.

Question 1:
I see many makes and models of SW radio on the web. The price ranges from 10 dollars US to several hundred dollars. What can i expect to get at 10 dollars, and what can i expect to get near 100 dollars? Are some radios really so awful you cant get much SW on them? Also, any particular radios or brand names to stay away from?

Question 2:
I understand we need to be able to detect single side band as well as regular AM on the SW bands. How important is this, and do some radios just not have this?

Question 3:
I also see a number of radios with 'bands' described in certain ways that are NOT in meters or even in Hertz, but things like "receives Bands 1 to 9", "receives SW1 and SW2", "World band SW".
I do however once in a while see the actual frequencies listed, like 3 to 20MHz, however sometimes the frequencies listed 'skip' several 'bands' like:
"receives 5 to 6MHz, 7 to 10MHz" where obviously they skipped 6 to 7MHz for some unknown reason.
So the question is, are there any bands that are more important than others, or do you really need to get all of them to have a good experience with this kind of radio reception?

Question 4:
Part of the reason im looking into this is to be able to listen to local channels for emergency broadcasts. Any standard channels for this (like channel 9 is for CB radio)?

I'll probably have more questions later, but that should be good enough to start. Thanks for any ideas or experiences you might want to share on either SW dx'ing or buying SW radios or SSB reception.

 

[ronsimpson]

4) emergency bands can be almost anywhere. (many bands) Because of digital TV there are now new bands, some for emergency. I think you should research this some. Thinks have changed recently so watch for dates on your data.

3)SWx; SW2 on your radio is not the same as SW2 on my radio. It is a function of the radio. A HAM radio may only tune the HAM areas and skip everything else. It may do 80m, 40m and 20m and skip in between. A general purpose radio will more likely cover from AM through 30mhz, but may skip little used areas.

2) single side band, is important, but you can hear many things with out it. It takes a good radio.

1) you get what you pay fore. The antenna is very important. A hand held $10 radio with no antenna well.....................Add 50 feet of wire and it will come alive. A $100 radio will give you SSB, more bands, more gain, stable, better rejection of unwanted stations.......................

 

[MrAl]

Hi ronsimpson,

Thanks for the quick reply. I'm finding out more as i go so anything you add is great.

I also wonder if the computer running will interfere with it badly? I had PIC chips interfere badly with standard AM radio already.

 

[JimB]

Question 1:
I see many makes and models of SW radio on the web. The price ranges from 10 dollars US to several hundred dollars. What can i expect to get at 10 dollars, and what can i expect to get near 100 dollars? Are some radios really so awful you cant get much SW on them? Also, any particular radios or brand names to stay away from?

For $10 you get a frustrating piece of junk.
Shortwave on most domestic radios is just a waste of time.

Question 2:
I understand we need to be able to detect single side band as well as regular AM on the SW bands. How important is this, and do some radios just not have this?

Depends what you want to listen to.
For shortwave broadcast reception, SSB is not required.
If you want to listen to the Amateur Bands, SSB/CW is essential.

Question 3:
I also see a number of radios with 'bands' described in certain ways that are NOT in meters or even in Hertz, but things like "receives Bands 1 to 9", "receives SW1 and SW2", "World band SW".

Meaningless non technical sales twaddle.

I do however once in a while see the actual frequencies listed, like 3 to 20MHz, however sometimes the frequencies listed 'skip' several 'bands' like:
"receives 5 to 6MHz, 7 to 10MHz" where obviously they skipped 6 to 7MHz for some unknown reason.
So the question is, are there any bands that are more important than others, or do you really need to get all of them to have a good experience with this kind of radio reception?

These receivers were probably just designed for coverage of the shortwave broadcast bands.
My suggestion would be to buy a "general coverage receiver", ie one which tunes up to 30Mhz in a number of bands.

Question 4:
Part of the reason im looking into this is to be able to listen to local channels for emergency broadcasts. Any standard channels for this (like channel 9 is for CB radio)?

Not sure that I can give much advice here.

As far as actual equipment goes, something like a Yaesu FRG7(basic) or FRG7700 (better) would do what you want within your budget.
Or perhaps an Icom IC-R71 or an IC-R72 would be a good choice.
I have an IC-R72 which i use as an occasional back-up or test/comparison receiver and I find it very good.
I dont know how much one of these would cost* in the USA but mine was £0.
It has a few "issues" but it does the business when required.

JimB

*(A quick google shows one for sale in Ireland for 300Euro)

 

[ronsimpson]

PC can interfere!

 

[JimB]

I also wonder if the computer running will interfere with it badly? I had PIC chips interfere badly with standard AM radio already.

Possibly.
Computers are a device of the devil as far as radio interference goes.

Having said that, my antenna is outside and about 20 feet away through the wall from my computers and I dont have any real problems.
All the computers are modern with decent RFI suppression.
If you are running something without a case, lots of unscreened cables and no suppression components in the cheap PSU, then you can expect problems.

JimB

 

[Reloadron]

I may be way off base with this thinking but don't many ham radios both Tx & Rx now include a PC interface? Been a long time since my ham days being active. For example the Yaesu FT-450D allows for computer control of the radio doesn't it?

My current receiver, a survivor of may years is one of these units. For SSB I just reduce the RF gain and use the BFO, prehistoric but hey it works. Haven't fired it up for years but it worked well last time I used it. Lost my antenna during a storm and have yet to get another up.

MrAl:

Question 4:
Part of the reason im looking into this is to be able to listen to local channels for emergency broadcasts. Any standard channels for this (like channel 9 is for CB radio)?

I believe you will find most communications along the lines of police, fire, and other emergency traffic in the high bands well above the AM broadcast band to the 30 MHz. of most short wave receivers. Most people interested in these communications use scanners in the ranges of 30 MHz to as high as 3 GHz. Maybe higher though most of those communications are below 1 GHz. You may want to look around for a used scanner to compliment a good short wave receiver.

Ron

 

[MrAl]

Hi again,

Thanks to all for the great information. This is what i had hoped for when i started this thread.

Ron:
Wow, that radio sure looks like an oldie. I bet it works better than the new ones though
For now i'll probably stick to under 30MHz bands, but it's interesting that other communications takes place above that too. Im not sure if i'll get into that or not yet, but it's starting to look like i need at least 3MHz to 30MHz, with some sort of SSB reception.
I didnt want to spend a lot of money just to get into this a little and see if i like it or not, but it sounds like the real cheap radios wont provide anything useful. Im also not sure if i want to put up a 50 foot antenna either, but maybe a 20 foot one if that would help?

 

[trash]

It sounds like you want to get into some serious SW listening.
Most of the previous posts have mentioned much the same as what I'm going to say.

You sound serious about it, so get yourself a good radio. The cheapy portable transitor radio models for under $150 aren't worth the effort. Not for your purpose.

What you want is something like a Yaesu FRG8800. These are a very good HF receiver. And you should be able to pick one up for about $300-$400.
There are older models like the Yaesu FRG7700. There are other makes and models like the Kenwood R-1000 or Icom ICR-71 so shop around.

But for the effort you'll do well to get a modern up to date scanner which also does shortwave radio too. Like an Icom ICR-100.
Then there are the top shelf stuff like WinRadio, which is a computer controlled receiver.
OR is you just won the Lottery, go for an Icom ICR-9500 or maybe an ICR-9000 if you're not as rich.

On thing to be weary of is that 'some' radios do HF or VHF/UHF well but not both.
A good example would be the Icom R3. It's a small hand held scanner. It's very good for VHF/UHF, but it's a bit deaf up above 1GHz and below 30MHz. Not to mention it's only AM/FM so one cannot expect much from it in HF. Most hand held scanners don't do HF well.

Here's somebody who's got a few more receivers listed.
**broken link removed**

You'll find some good deals at your local hamfest. Check the back of QST magazine to see if there are any near you soon.

 

[MrAl]

Hi trash,

Thanks for the insight. I have to say though that i probably wont want to spend more than 150 dollars (USD) on this. I want to be able to listen to some stations like WWV and other stuff of course, but im not sure if i have to really get every station on the globe either. I was wondering how good an experience i would get from an under 100 dollar sw radio.

Perhaps an added high gain front end would help a cheaper radio? After all it's all under 30MHz im after really.
I have to wonder what the impedance of the inputs for the antennas are on these radios, 50 ohms perhaps?

 

[Reloadron]

Hi Ya MrAl

Before I forget, yes, 50 Ohms. Every receiver/transmitter I have owned was 50 Ohms sans an old continuous tuning Dumont TV that was 3000 Ohm twin lead.

Trash made a great suggestion, check local Hamfest. A Google should bring up plenty of results. Yeah, my old R392 is a boat anchor of Korean War vintage. I paid about $100 for mine and today they command $350 for beater ones. Nothing wrong with used and older. Patiently look around for used stuff. Old Hams do pass away and frequently great stuff can be had for literally pennies on the dollar. Patience and good things come to those who wait.

Ron

 

[JimB]

I agree completely with Ron.
An older receiver could be an ideal solution for you.

Perhaps an added high gain front end would help a cheaper radio? After all it's all under 30MHz im after really.

But this is far from an ideal solution!
Unless there is something seriously wrong or deficient in the design of a receiver, it is most unlikely to benefit from a high gain pre-amplifier.
In fact the amplifier will probably degrade the performance as the mixer stage will be overloaded to the point where all you can hear are spurious signals generated by overloading the mixer.
Below about 10Mhz, the limiting factor in recever sensitivity is usually external noise coming down the antenna with the wanted signal.

JimB

 

[trash]

Using a pre-amp for HF really isn't of much help because you're mostly amplifying atmospheric noise.
Amplifiers are really only a substitute on HF for reasonable antennas.

I'm trying to think of some examples that might help you choose. The small AM/FM SW radios I think you're really limiting yourself.
I have an AOR scanner which has a BFO used for primitive form of SSB. While it works and it's better than the cheapy radios, it's still a notch below my HF radio.
I have a Yaesu FT767, which is a lot like the FRG8800 (or any other reasonable quality HF radio) and it's no comparison even the the AOR.

I have though of an example. If you tune between 7 and 8MHz
With the cheapy radio you might hear 3 high power AM stations.
With a scanner and BFO, you might hear about 8 stations.
With a HF radio like an FRG8800 you'll hear tens to hundreds of stations depending on the conditions.
And that's an ordinary HF radio, not one of the top shelf latest models
.
The best thing I can say is to test drive both kinds of radio. It's been a while since I visited Uncle Sam, but from memory you would probably be heading to one of the local electronics stores run by some nice gentlemen from some dubious middle east country.
Next you need to get your hands on the dial of a good HF or ham radio. There's a couple of ham radio shops in your part of the world. It really would be worth your while to visit them and ask them to give you a hand on demo of a HF receiver in action.
I did a quick search and this shop even mentions which hamfests they're going to be at. **broken link removed**
At hamfests you can play with many radios and compare them and get the best prices.

At the end of the day if you spend $100 on a cheapy and you decide that it isn't up to scratch, you might find it harder to sell.
The more expensive HF receivers hold their value quite well.

Even if you bought a general coverage RX HF ham radio and just used it for receive. If you ever decided to get a ham radio licence (which is easier if you listen to ham radio) then there's no need to spend anything to get on air.

The antenna impedance really doesn't concern you. While technically it makes a difference, to shortwave listeners a nice random long wire antennas do the job just fine.
The impedance of wire varies greatly with frequency so you'll go a bit nuts trying to tune it without a transmitter or an antenna analyser which will cost more than your radio.

Shop around. Go have a look at the good radios and get your fingers on the dial and get a demo.
Then go back to Habib's Supacheap Electronics and compare the $100 tranny.

 

[geraldfryjr]

I had a Kenwood 940 A/T that I paid $2000 back in 1988,it was the best radio ever.
Mine was modified to transmit continously across the whole dial.
There is a 940 on ebay right now for $500 6 days left and no bids last time I checked today.
I always see a great deal when I don't have the cash!!
jer

 

[MrAl]

Hello again,


Thanks for the great replies. This is definitely helping me understand this hobby more and more.

So it looks like you have to spend the bucks to get the clucks, ok, well i'll have to think about this

How about a manufacturer named "MFJ" ? They have catalog on the web with an 80 dollar unit. It's a kit though so has to be constructed.

 

[trash]

If you're building one, then it's probably about time you got a ham radio licence. I just noticed all those green pips .... You're probably overdue.
Either that or you should consider a seat in Congress.

A quick look are fleabay and this came up... 170701206326 but it isn't general coverage receive. So while it would be ok for you to play with, there is a lot your can't hear.

190580649590 has general coverage receive.
Ah ! A Yaesu FT757: 160655467383

Ah... here you go... just what you're looking for and a better price.
Yaesu FRG7700; 260857176112

 

[RadioRon]

I gave a beginner an Eton E5 a couple of years ago and that worked out well. Seems to be a good entry level radio.

 

[trash]

Yes, old HF radios are a great way to get people involved.
We have the a Ham Radio Foundation licence and it's very basic entry level licence which most 10 year old kids can pass.
This gives them access to 80m, 40m, 15m, 10m, 2m and 70cm bands, all modes 10 watts.

A few people have given me old HF radios that needed a bit of fixin'. I've then given these to some F calls. They can keep the radio and when they buy a radio for themselves or no longer use it, give it to another F call who needs a HF radio. I've given away four radios so far. One of them And FT101, I know is onto it's third owner.

 

[MrAl]

Hi again,

Some nice radios there trash. I'm really undecided what to get now

 

[davenn]

Hello again,
Thanks for the great replies. This is definitely helping me understand this hobby more and more.
So it looks like you have to spend the bucks to get the clucks, ok, well i'll have to think about this
How about a manufacturer named "MFJ" ? They have catalog on the web with an 80 dollar unit. It's a kit though so has to be constructed.

You really do have to send a reasonable amount BUT as others have suggested get an amateur general coverage receiver... you may well get an older one for US$80 - 150
Dont get a domestic cheapie for 50 - 100 bux you will be disappointed and will prob throw it in corner of the room in disgust!! and be disillusioned about the whole hobby
MFJ make some nice stuff, I have one of their HF bands 3 - 30MHz antenna tuners.
MFJ company, amongst the amateur community is affectionalely known as Mighty Fine Junk haha

I emphasise AFFECTIONATELY, its just a fun acronym. They do make a wonderful range of gear

cheers
Dave
VK2TDN