Is the output from the DCF time signal the same as the MSF one?
I.E will software written for a DCF receiver work when attached to an MSF receiver

As Eric has said, the time code is different, here is the DCF77 time code info:
Physikalisch-Technische Bundesanstalt (PTB)

The MSF time code info is available as a PDF document here:
MSF Radio Time Signal : Products & Services : Time : Time & Frequency : Science + Technology : National Physical Laboratory

Thanks, Ive managed to get some useful info out of them
What I've discovered "so far" is that the DCF signal output THIS:

Code:

 Bit    Name    Description        Comment 
0-14           Reserved           Coding to requirement 
15     R       Send antenna       0 = Standard antenna / 1 = Reserve antenna 
16     A1      Announcement 1     1 = Next hour a Daylight Saving Time (DST) change occurs 
17     Z1      Time Zone bit 1    0 = Winter / 1 = Summer (DST) 
18     Z2      Time Zone bit 2    0 = Summer / 1 = Winter (usually the opposite of Z1) 
19     A2      Announcement 2     1 = Next hour an extra second is inserted (leap-second) 
20     S       Startbit           Always 1, startbit coded time information 
21-27          Minutes            7 bit, BCD, LSB first (00...59) 
28     P1      Parity bit 1       Even parity for all received bits from the minutes 
29-34          Hours              6 bit,BCD, LSB first (00...23) 
35     P2      Parity bit 2       Even parity for all received bits from the hours 
36-41          Day of the month   6 bit, BCD, LSB first (01...31) 
42-44          Day of the week    3 bit, BCD, LSB first (1 = Monday...7 = Sunday) 
45-49          Month 5 bit,       BCD, LSB first (01...12) 
50-57          Year 8 bit,        BCD, LSB first (00...99) 
58     P3      Parity bit 3       Even parity for all received bits from the date

i'm guessing the bit numbers above are whats transmitted in those actual seconds?


While the MSF receiver module I have (and want to use) the only info I have to the outputs are:

Code:

 Taken from the PDF file the ONLY info relating to the data output pins:
Serial Output
This port can be used for connecting external units, like. digital displays.
Available information:

 Actual year

 Actual month

 Actual day

 Actual day of the week

 Actual hour [12h]

 Actual AM/PM

 Actual minute

 Actual second
The transmition always happens on the begining of every hour, at
HH:00.00,500 and takes 44 ms.
Additional transmitions will happen after „first receive“, „forced receive“ und „auto
receive“ and after any correction of the hands was necessary.

Specification Date: 09.03.2005
MSF RC_wallclockDO_Specification
2.7.1. Format of data
Nr. Describtion Format Numbers Explanation
1 daylow   BCD 00 - 31 Lower byte of actual day
2 dayhigh  BCD 00 - 31 High byte of actual day
3 dayofweek HEX 1 - 7 Day of the week, 1 = monday
4 month    HEX 1 - 12 Actual month, 1 = January
5 yearlow  HEX 00 - 63 Actual year, 14H = xx20
6 yearhigh HEX 00 - 63 Actual year, 14H = xx20
7 minutelow  BCD 0 - 9 Actual minute, 0 - 9
8 minutehigh BCD 0 - 5 Actual minute, 10 -50, 0xxx = AM, 1xxx = PM
9 hour HEX 0 - 11 Actual hour
10 secondlow  BCD 0 - 9 Actual second, 0 - 9
11 secondhigh BCD 0 - 5 Actual second, 10 -50


The transmition is serial, sychronized to a clock-frequency of 1 kHz. The clock frequency is
also available on the port. 
Timing diagram:
clock pin … 1
data pin ... 2
First nibble Second nibble Third nibble Fourth nibble ...
daylow = 0101B =5 dayhigh = 0010H =2 dayofw. = 0011H =3 month = 1011H =11 ...
Beispiel: 25. Nov. Mittwoch
Example: Nov. 25th Wednesday

I've got an example of a basic program to decode the German DCF signal but it's in proton basic while I'll be using picbasic pro, which isn't a problem I can figure out how to convert it ok
What i could do with some help on is, any ideas what bits I need to change in the code to get the msf module decoding?
i.e the main differences I need to look out for or work on changing
I've never done anything with clocks before, and never used a serial input to a pic either so any ideas are welcome

Originally Posted by ericgibbs

hi,
Look here:
The site has a link to a program, 'Oval'

A Rugby MSF Atomic Clock interface

thanks, had a look and it's quite impressive, however the interface is for attaching to a computer and there is no "program" as such (that I can see?)
What I'd like is hints on how to make a pic decode the msf signal and display it on an lcd

Originally Posted by karenhornby

What i could do with some help on is, any ideas what bits I need to change in the code to get the msf module decoding?

Your MSF receiver appears to also have a built-in decoder like this:
http://www.u-t-s.de/PDF_Daten/583374...cification.pdf

So now it looks like it is outputting the time data in a proprietary serial protocol - not the raw MSF time codes that are documented.

Looking at the data sheet, it uses 1khz clock pulses to sync the data bits.
Just as the clock pulse goes from high to low would be a good time to sample the data pin.
A low = 1 and High=0. As it arrives serially so you will need to shift the bits into 4 bit nibbles and in some cases as the values are in hex and others it is in bcd so you may need to convert between hex - bcd depending on what you want to do with the data.

I don't know how you would do it all in Basic as I rarely use it, I prefer asm.

Originally Posted by picasm

Your MSF receiver appears to also have a built-in decoder like this:
http://www.u-t-s.de/PDF_Daten/583374...cification.pdf

So now it looks like it is outputting the time data in a proprietary serial protocol - not the raw MSF time codes that are documented.

Looking at the data sheet, it uses 1khz clock pulses to sync the data bits.
Just as the clock pulse goes from high to low would be a good time to sample the data pin.
A low = 1 and High=0. As it arrives serially so you will need to shift the bits into 4 bit nibbles and in some cases as the values are in hex and others it is in bcd so you may need to convert between hex - bcd depending on what you want to do with the data.

I don't know how you would do it all in Basic as I rarely use it, I prefer asm.

You're right
that is the actual module.
So all i need to do is decode the serial data? umm this might seem a stupid question but whats the difference between a bit and a nibble? sorry for asking what to most is probably a simple thing

Thanks
any info is greatly appreciated.
My only experience of pic's so far is to connect to an lcd, incorporate a temp sensor and display the temp and basic on off switches so this is all new to me

This probably won't help you, but just on the offchance, Simple Radio Clock for PC's shows assembly details for a clock receiver for either MSF or DCF.

It includes C source code for a linux program that understands MSF, DCF, and WWVB time signals.

Originally Posted by David James

This probably won't help you, but just on the offchance, Simple Radio Clock for PC's shows assembly details for a clock receiver for either MSF or DCF.

It includes C source code for a linux program that understands MSF, DCF, and WWVB time signals.

unfortunatly I dont know "C" at all, I only know basic.
But all i have to do it seems is learn how to interpret a serial output and decode it as the data is a simple 1Khz data stream aparently