Which Microcontroller to choose - Electronic Circuits Projects Diagrams Free

nunotins14 · 30th September 2007, 04:59 PM

Hi all, I would like to know which microntroller to buy...
I have a PIC16F84A but its expensive, doesnt have PWM, doesnt have ADC, old, etc...

Also i have a problem with my PIC16F84A, whenever i try to use input(..) (CCS) my output LED flashes randomly, i can activate it with my finger etc...

ATMEL or PIC?

Well, i bought this PIC because I found a cheap homemade programmer...

So, my "needs" are, easy interface, PWM, ADC, homemade programmer, possibility of use C code instead of ASM, many samples on the net etc, before I bought PIC16F84A i searched google for it and i found 300k results, I tried with other ones and only found around 80k...

Thank you all

EDIT:

Ok, i read the "Newcomers, please read! (PIC regarded) Upd. 0xD" and i see that a good choice is 16F88, but i cant find an homemade programmer :/
Also that article is from 2005, I bet theres something better outt here

By the way, with my old PIC (16F84A) i use http://pic16f84.hit.bg/ both schematic and PicProg software

**3v0** · 30th September 2007, 05:34 PM

There is no solid answer to the ATMEL or PIC question. Both are good.

There is more support for the PIC here then for other processors.

I use CCS C. Sounds like you have a floating input that is effecting you LED. Would need to see your schematic and code to be sure.

There are basic types of PIC programmers.

Serial. They are the simplest to build buy do not work with all PC's. Not all PC's have serial ports and some that will not work.

Parallel. For the most part if you build them correctly they work.

ICD2 clones. These communicate with the PC over RS232 or USB. The actual programming is done by an on board pic.

ICD2 clones are popular. Microchip provides the software so do not have to depend on a 3rd party to keep the chip support up to date. I can be used as a run control tool (hardware breakpoints) to debug your code in real time. aka debugger. To build one of these from scratch you need to get your hands on a programmed chip. Chicken egg sort of thing.

You can get an Inchworm ICD2 kit from DipMicro, or build one from the schematic found on Bill's site http://www.blueroomelectronics.com/

You can find schematics for serial and parallel programmers at sparkfun.com and elsewhere.

Ambient · 30th September 2007, 07:11 PM

there are a lot of PICs with different numbers of I/O pins that do all of that. microchips website has all of them listed in a chart that shows thier specs for you to compare each. It depends on who many IO you need really. I use the 12f683 for 1 I, 5 I/O and the 16f690 for when I need up to 18. The 16f690 is pretty cheap also.

You found more results for the 84 because it is old. There still seems to be a lot of them left though.

nunotins14 · 30th September 2007, 08:29 PM

hmm ok, but what about the other things like PWM ADC etc?
I found a programmer for the 16f88 and i think this one feets all my needs...

my schematic is simple, i have the 4Mhz with two 27pf capacitors and my LED is connected directly to PIN_A1

my code:

Code:

#include "16F84A.h"
#fuses XT, NOWDT, NOPROTECT
#use delay(clock=4000000)

void main()
{
	if (input(PIN_A0) == 1)
		output_high(PIN_A1);

	else if (input(PIN_A0) == 0)
		output_low(PIN_A1);
}

Im testing this near my notebook, sound system etc, im using a 6V supply...

If i connect PIN_A0 to GND it sets PIN_A1 to GND always, and same for VCC, but i cant make it "stable"

Also, im trying to communicate trough infrared, if i make a LED flash (delay_ms()) it works, if i connect a Tx IR i can "capture" the IR beam with a TSOP1736, but this only work with the transformer, if i use batterys which should have 2A the signal is weak...

My main problem with IR is that when i use "output_low()" the LED (output), on TSOP1736 doesnt turn off

**Nigel Goodwin** · 30th September 2007, 08:58 PM

I suggest you check my tutorials, which (among other things) show how to do IR.

nunotins14 · 30th September 2007, 09:20 PM

and its in ASM :/, but ill have a look, also its for 16F628 which can have more "stuff" than 16F84A, and i cant see the schematic :/

**Nigel Goodwin** · 30th September 2007, 09:26 PM

Almost all of the tutorials use nothing the 16F84 hasn't got, and the schematics are all there as well - under Hardware.

nunotins14 · 30th September 2007, 09:29 PM

ok, found

, your page looks awsome, do you have MSN?

**Nigel Goodwin** · 30th September 2007, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nunotins14

ok, found

, your page looks awsome, do you have MSN?

NO, I'm not a kid

nunotins14 · 30th September 2007, 09:48 PM

lol, ok, well, i dont understand ASM quite well, can you explain how to "play" with the IR?
I see LCD variables, this means that i need a LCD?

A bit above i see Device Command so i think i really need a LCD, can i make it so i only need a LED to test if its working? probably i can use LED's instead of LCD but since i dont understand ASM....

Also, can you translate it to C? :P

**Nigel Goodwin** · 30th September 2007, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nunotins14

lol, ok, well, i dont understand ASM quite well, can you explain how to "play" with the IR?
I see LCD variables, this means that i need a LCD?

Only to duplicate what I did.

Quote:

A bit above i see Device Command so i think i really need a LCD, can i make it so i only need a LED to test if its working? probably i can use LED's instead of LCD but since i dont understand ASM....

The Device Command stuff is simply part of the Sony SIRC's system.

Quote:

Also, can you translate it to C? :P

Nope, I don't do C.

If you check my radio tutorial, there's a link to where the routines came from, he has similar Mancester type IR routines as well.

nunotins14 · 30th September 2007, 10:02 PM

hmm, sorry i didnt understand the most of your last post, but ill get it :P tomorrow ill buy the components to test it, thank you for your help

By the way, wheres the radio tutorial?

Sceadwian · 1st October 2007, 06:41 AM

Check out AVRFreaks.net, plenty of information and resources there. Cheap programmers included.

An AVR running at 5MHZ will runs instructions as fast as a PIC16F84A will at 20MHZ. The PIC can't even compare on a clock per clock basis for instruction and I/O speed, even higher end PICS which have internal PLL's can't run at significantly fast enough speeds to make up for the 4X clock to instruction cycle divisor (could be wrong on that).

**Nigel Goodwin** · 1st October 2007, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sceadwian

Check out AVRFreaks.net, plenty of information and resources there. Cheap programmers included.

An AVR running at 5MHZ will runs instructions as fast as a PIC16F84A will at 20MHZ. The PIC can't even compare on a clock per clock basis for instruction and I/O speed, even higher end PICS which have internal PLL's can't run at significantly fast enough speeds to make up for the 4X clock to instruction cycle divisor (could be wrong on that).

But PIC assembler is more efficient, any speed differences are fairly small, with the higher end PIC's being faster than the AVR's.

But in any case, speed is only very rarely of any importance - probably most of the time a processor is just wasting time.

Sceadwian · 2nd October 2007, 01:09 AM

How specifically is PIC assembler more efficient? Also what about complexity? Basic code in ASM specifically is a lot easier to understand on an AVR than it is a PIC, they both might be RISC based but the similarities stop there. A speed difference of 4 to 1 per clock is pretty big by anyones standards, which specific higher end PICS are you referring to vs which specific AVR's?

DSPIC's can't be included of course because they're not really a 'PIC' much like an AVR32 isn't an 'AVR'

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30th September 2007, 04:59 PM	(permalink)
nunotins14	Which Microcontroller to choose Hi all, I would like to know which microntroller to buy... I have a PIC16F84A but its expensive, doesnt have PWM, doesnt have ADC, old, etc... Also i have a problem with my PIC16F84A, whenever i try to use input(..) (CCS) my output LED flashes randomly, i can activate it with my finger etc... ATMEL or PIC? Well, i bought this PIC because I found a cheap homemade programmer... So, my "needs" are, easy interface, PWM, ADC, homemade programmer, possibility of use C code instead of ASM, many samples on the net etc, before I bought PIC16F84A i searched google for it and i found 300k results, I tried with other ones and only found around 80k... Thank you all EDIT: Ok, i read the "Newcomers, please read! (PIC regarded) Upd. 0xD" and i see that a good choice is 16F88, but i cant find an homemade programmer :/ Also that article is from 2005, I bet theres something better outt here By the way, with my old PIC (16F84A) i use http://pic16f84.hit.bg/ both schematic and PicProg software Last edited by nunotins14; 30th September 2007 at 05:13 PM.

30th September 2007, 05:34 PM	(permalink)
3v0	There is no solid answer to the ATMEL or PIC question. Both are good. There is more support for the PIC here then for other processors. I use CCS C. Sounds like you have a floating input that is effecting you LED. Would need to see your schematic and code to be sure. There are basic types of PIC programmers. Serial. They are the simplest to build buy do not work with all PC's. Not all PC's have serial ports and some that will not work. Parallel. For the most part if you build them correctly they work. ICD2 clones. These communicate with the PC over RS232 or USB. The actual programming is done by an on board pic. ICD2 clones are popular. Microchip provides the software so do not have to depend on a 3rd party to keep the chip support up to date. I can be used as a run control tool (hardware breakpoints) to debug your code in real time. aka debugger. To build one of these from scratch you need to get your hands on a programmed chip. Chicken egg sort of thing. You can get an Inchworm ICD2 kit from DipMicro, or build one from the schematic found on Bill's site http://www.blueroomelectronics.com/ You can find schematics for serial and parallel programmers at sparkfun.com and elsewhere.

30th September 2007, 07:11 PM	(permalink)
Ambient	there are a lot of PICs with different numbers of I/O pins that do all of that. microchips website has all of them listed in a chart that shows thier specs for you to compare each. It depends on who many IO you need really. I use the 12f683 for 1 I, 5 I/O and the 16f690 for when I need up to 18. The 16f690 is pretty cheap also. You found more results for the 84 because it is old. There still seems to be a lot of them left though. Last edited by Ambient; 30th September 2007 at 07:14 PM.

30th September 2007, 08:29 PM	(permalink)
nunotins14	hmm ok, but what about the other things like PWM ADC etc? I found a programmer for the 16f88 and i think this one feets all my needs... my schematic is simple, i have the 4Mhz with two 27pf capacitors and my LED is connected directly to PIN_A1 my code: Code: #include "16F84A.h" #fuses XT, NOWDT, NOPROTECT #use delay(clock=4000000) void main() { if (input(PIN_A0) == 1) output_high(PIN_A1); else if (input(PIN_A0) == 0) output_low(PIN_A1); } Im testing this near my notebook, sound system etc, im using a 6V supply... If i connect PIN_A0 to GND it sets PIN_A1 to GND always, and same for VCC, but i cant make it "stable" Also, im trying to communicate trough infrared, if i make a LED flash (delay_ms()) it works, if i connect a Tx IR i can "capture" the IR beam with a TSOP1736, but this only work with the transformer, if i use batterys which should have 2A the signal is weak... My main problem with IR is that when i use "output_low()" the LED (output), on TSOP1736 doesnt turn off Last edited by nunotins14; 30th September 2007 at 08:32 PM.

30th September 2007, 08:58 PM	(permalink)
Nigel Goodwin	I suggest you check my tutorials, which (among other things) show how to do IR. __________________ PIC programmer software, and PIC Tutorials at: http://www.winpicprog.co.uk

30th September 2007, 09:20 PM	(permalink)
nunotins14	and its in ASM :/, but ill have a look, also its for 16F628 which can have more "stuff" than 16F84A, and i cant see the schematic :/

30th September 2007, 09:26 PM	(permalink)
Nigel Goodwin	Almost all of the tutorials use nothing the 16F84 hasn't got, and the schematics are all there as well - under Hardware. __________________ PIC programmer software, and PIC Tutorials at: http://www.winpicprog.co.uk

30th September 2007, 09:29 PM	(permalink)
nunotins14	ok, found , your page looks awsome, do you have MSN?

30th September 2007, 09:48 PM	(permalink)
nunotins14	lol, ok, well, i dont understand ASM quite well, can you explain how to "play" with the IR? I see LCD variables, this means that i need a LCD? A bit above i see Device Command so i think i really need a LCD, can i make it so i only need a LED to test if its working? probably i can use LED's instead of LCD but since i dont understand ASM.... Also, can you translate it to C? :P

30th September 2007, 10:02 PM	(permalink)
nunotins14	hmm, sorry i didnt understand the most of your last post, but ill get it :P tomorrow ill buy the components to test it, thank you for your help By the way, wheres the radio tutorial? Last edited by nunotins14; 30th September 2007 at 10:53 PM.

1st October 2007, 06:41 AM	(permalink)
Sceadwian	Check out AVRFreaks.net, plenty of information and resources there. Cheap programmers included. An AVR running at 5MHZ will runs instructions as fast as a PIC16F84A will at 20MHZ. The PIC can't even compare on a clock per clock basis for instruction and I/O speed, even higher end PICS which have internal PLL's can't run at significantly fast enough speeds to make up for the 4X clock to instruction cycle divisor (could be wrong on that). __________________ "Because I be what I be. I would tell you what you want to know if I could, mum, but I be a cat, and no cat anywhere ever gave anyone a straight answer, har har."

2nd October 2007, 01:09 AM	(permalink)
Sceadwian	How specifically is PIC assembler more efficient? Also what about complexity? Basic code in ASM specifically is a lot easier to understand on an AVR than it is a PIC, they both might be RISC based but the similarities stop there. A speed difference of 4 to 1 per clock is pretty big by anyones standards, which specific higher end PICS are you referring to vs which specific AVR's? DSPIC's can't be included of course because they're not really a 'PIC' much like an AVR32 isn't an 'AVR' __________________ "Because I be what I be. I would tell you what you want to know if I could, mum, but I be a cat, and no cat anywhere ever gave anyone a straight answer, har har."