If you don't want to spend that much money on a starting setup both PIC's and AVR's can be programmed with home built programmers (a few resistors and transistors) on a parallel port.

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ok so out of the PIC or the AVR which would be better overall, like would be better down the road even if it is harder to learn? And price of programmers and stuff doesn't matter really as long as its not obscenely priced ($200+) but I would prefer that the chip be relatively cheap like sub $5.

 

It comes down to a matter of personal preference really. I prefer AVR's and they do have some advantages over PIC's in their architecture, but PIC's have been around for a very long time and have a bigger market share. Down the road it doesn't matter which you stick with so much. Once you've gotten the basics of either AVR or PIC's down it's easy to switch to the other if required.

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Ok now whats confusing me is after looking at the AVR's there sre so many different kinds and also do I need a controller or just the chip? Like this website is whats confusing me http://www.futurlec.com/BasicControllers.shtml the controllers look like boards with the chip mounted with other components whats this for? http://www.futurlec.com/ET-AVR_Stamp_Board.shtml This is what I was looking at buying but now I'm confused, will that program the chip, whats the controller its talking about? Sorry for all the stupid questions but I want to get something really good and make sure its right.

 

Those are basically teaching modules. They have support circuitry like LED's and switches and looks like a buzzer and interfaces for an LCD. But the chips are built into the board aren't are removeable, and it's basically only the one device that's on it you'll ever be able to program. There are a LOT of boards like that out there, made by a LOT of different companies, and even weekenders that just know how to build PCB's and assemble a few bits. And if you think there are a lot of AVR's you should see how many different kinds of PIC's there are =) It is a bit overwhelming. The ET_AVR looks like a decent module, but it says you have to purchase a programmer for the board as well. The STK500 looks similar though no breadboard space, it does have tonnes of headers for external connections though, but it will program all DIP sized AVR's that exist. You insert the chip into the board and it programs it, it can also progarm the chip while it's in a circuit you've built but you need to read up on that. I would recommend downloading the PDF file for the STK500 development kit from Atmel's website as well as the PDF file for a simple but full featured AVR such as the Tiny15. Read them both from cover to cover.

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sweet Thanks alot for all the info. So what would be a good AVR chip to start out using a tiny12? or any recommendations? Also can you tell me what a good chip would be to use on my ir switch project I'm working on? Thank ya'll for everything and I'll try to shut up askin' stupid questions for awhile. Thank you everyone who gave advise I really appreciate it.

 

What programming experience do you have?, have you ever done any assembly programing in the past?.

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PIC programmer software, and PIC Tutorials at:
http://www.winpicprog.co.uk

 

The $99 ICD2 from Sparkfun is true USB. Note there are a bunch of ICDs out there (I think some are ICD2) that have a USB port, but only use it for +5v power! There is no USB data functionality and you have to use the serial port to actually do programming.

The programmer and demo board are generally two different things. I recommend you just look for 2 products here. Microchip makes a bunch of expensive demo board. I would just get a protoboard and plug whatever you want into it along with your PIC.

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I thought what I'd do was I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes.

 

Nigel, yes I have programmed in assembly (for the Nintendo). And after a lightbulb clicked in my mind I realized that they make serial to usd connectors so it doesn't matter if its usb anymore because I can use it. The reason I'm looking at the AVR STK500 is that its designed for a beginner and can program alot of their chips. Its still up in the air between the PIC and the AVR but I figure I can always get one then the other no problem so I don't know I'll figure it out before I order, but I promise I'll stop buggin' ya'll about it because I think I got enough figured out to make a decision now. Thanks all

 

The reason I asked was that depending what you've programmed previously, it may be easier to move to either AVR or PIC?.

Personally, I would consider AVR probably easier if you come from a Z80, 8080 background, and PIC probably easier if you come from a 6502, 6800 background.

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PIC programmer software, and PIC Tutorials at:
http://www.winpicprog.co.uk

 

You might want to look at an clone ICD2 (in circuit programmer; if you go PIC) and a development board as a two part deal. I have an STK500 that sits in a corner as a programmer. I have never used the on-board stuff.. Bought it thinking I would, then wound up on a breadboard with my circuits.

Also, look at blueroomelectronics.com or search for PIC development boards. If you go AVR, look into a jtag clone. I really wish I did not spend all the money (back then) on the STK500.. It is nothing more than a programmer for me. I would go jtag and breadboard if you go the Atmel way.

 

Do you mind me asking which Nintendo. NES(6502) SNES(65816?) Gameboy(Z80). I'm guessing that you haven't worked on anything later in asm. I see your from Texas, the only companies I know with a Texas connection would be Tradewest/Williams. Did you work for one of them?

Mike.

 

No I didn't really work for a company programming. I've been programming C++ since about 7th grade (TI calculator basic was my first language then I moved to C++) I learned Java in high school but I pretty much hate it because its useless to me I prefer C++. Now to answer your question. Have you ever heard of an Emulator? Well back in Jr High me and my friends would use them to play old NES and SNES games on the computers at school. About my Sophmore year of high school I realized I could program my own things that would run off these emulators. I used the NES emulator and made afew games and stuff. Computer programming was my main hobby for so many years me and my friends would make games and stuff. My friend is actually making his own engine right now. Anyway the other day I saw an electronics book that mentioned microcontrollers and that they could be programmed and I had forgotten this so I basically got back into tinkering with electronics but was looking for a chip with alot of tutorials and stuff to learn it on. Not as much of the programming part but the actual wiring part because IC's confuse the heck out of me sometimes because I just started using them and I still haven't 100% gotten used to them and I wanted to be sure and have a good reference to look to. Plus I wanted a good flexible chip to use once I got better at it.

 

You can only learn what is best for you by trying things out =) I'd suggest a few software simulators perhaps. AVR or PIC, both are common. If you want results you do you don't over analyze it. Experiance will teach you the same as it does everyone else =>

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I'm surprized no one has mentioned the AVR Butterfly. You can get a book, and the butterfly (sports an Atmega169 processor, LCD, joystick, etc, etc.) all for 40 US dollars. Try this link:
http://www.smileymicros.com/
Myself, I like the PICs, and nothing beets an ICD2, and development board. Sparkfun is a great place to shop:
http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/categories.php
I have a couple of futurlec's boards, and they do have sockets so you can remove the chips, and change them, however, they must be programed with the programer that futurlec provides, or Pony programmer, and both seem quite buggy to me, compared with an ICD2.
robert