Who had the first hardware debugger? - Electronic Circuits Projects Diagrams Free

William At MyBlueRoom · 7th November 2006, 02:13 AM

Who had the first hardware debugger? PICs? Atmel? Avr? Intel? Motorola? Other?

Pommie · 7th November 2006, 02:46 AM

The first hardware debugger that I had the pleasure of using was for the SNES - Super Nintendo Entertainment System - around about 1988/9.

Not many people know that the development hardware for the SNES was designed by Sony. We were doing some work for Sony and we got our system direct from them. We (unintentionally) caused a fall out between Sony and NOA (Nintendo of America) when we asked NOA how to do something on the dev kit and they discovered we had the kit before they did.

As for Micro Controllers, I've never had my hands on any devkit better than your Inchworm. I must get around to adding my comments to the review thread.

Mike.

Pommie · 7th November 2006, 02:49 AM

BTW, anyone that has hardware debugging facilities, could you mention any features like "hardware trace", "break on location =" etc. that it has.

Mike.

philba · 7th November 2006, 02:50 AM

Atmel and Microchip weren't even an idea when the first ones came out. Intel had what they called an In Circuit Emulator (ICE) in the mid 70s starting with the 8080 (there may well have been one for the 4040). They were big, cranky monsters. All the microprocessor vendors had ICEs for their chips so it's hard to say who was first. I would think intel or motorola. Basically they were the outgrowth of logic analyzers.

I had an ICE86 which I hated because it was basically a crutch. I saw too many engineers relying on it instead of using logic and a simple debug monitor to deduce the problem. I could usually track down a bug in less time than it took to power the thing up and go though all the riggamarole to get it working.

Papabravo · 7th November 2006, 03:44 AM

We built hardware debuggers for the 8008 (predecessor of the 8080) in 1971. Before that we had hardware debuggers for the TTL logic units that we designed in 1967. They used 4K EMM core stacks with about a 1 microsecond access time.

William At MyBlueRoom · 7th November 2006, 04:07 AM

Many CPUs had ICE they still do, I recall seeing a 386 ICE once. But built in hardware debugging (inside the CPU). Who started that?

philba · 7th November 2006, 04:40 AM

If you count sw interrupt instructions, that goes way back. The 80386 had internal context dump (ICE support). I *think* it also had breakpoint registers.

Papabravo · 7th November 2006, 01:55 PM

The Motorola 6809 had a software interrupt instruction ca. 1982, and the 6502 of KIM-I, PET, and Apple fame had a single byte BRK instruction ca.1976, and the 8080/8085, ca. 1974 had the RESTART instructions, seven of them plus RST 0 which was equivalent to a RESET.

mramos1 · 9th November 2006, 07:21 PM

In the early 80's we used Intel and Motorola, mostly motorola. And the 8" floppy drives cluck and clunked as you stepped through code it hit a break point. ADC maybe, do not recall the name.

I owned a MetaICE 8031/51 but sold it on ebay a year or so ago.. 5.25 floppies with that bad boy..

William At MyBlueRoom · 10th November 2006, 06:37 AM

Look at the price of this ICE. I hope there's great tech support.

http://microcontrollershop.com/produ...12a114a8207502

mramos1 · 10th November 2006, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by William At MyBlueRoom

Look at the price of this ICE. I hope there's great tech support.

http://microcontrollershop.com/produ...12a114a8207502

I sold my Metalink ICE master (that was the name I think) for $350..

No wonder that guy was so happy..

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Similar Threads
Title	Starter	Forum	Replies	Latest
Hardware SPI+SPI or SPI + Software I2C?	William At MyBlueRoom	Micro Controllers	2	19th August 2006 06:31 AM
VHDL: Hardware or Software?	Styx	General Electronics Chat	2	22nd June 2005 06:40 AM
Aquiring HardWare - Internationaly Obviously	TiagoSilva	Robotics Chat	6	22nd April 2005 02:03 AM
How to test PIC hardware stability?	VictorPS	Micro Controllers	11	2nd January 2005 12:37 AM
how can i designe hardware windows o/s can identify	Chinthaka	General Electronics Chat	1	22nd August 2003 01:12 AM

7th November 2006, 02:13 AM	(permalink)
William At MyBlueRoom	Who had the first hardware debugger? Who had the first hardware debugger? PICs? Atmel? Avr? Intel? Motorola? Other? __________________ Bill Home of the Firefly PIC Tutor Inchworm ICD2 http://www.blueroomelectronics.com

7th November 2006, 02:46 AM	(permalink)
Pommie	The first hardware debugger that I had the pleasure of using was for the SNES - Super Nintendo Entertainment System - around about 1988/9. Not many people know that the development hardware for the SNES was designed by Sony. We were doing some work for Sony and we got our system direct from them. We (unintentionally) caused a fall out between Sony and NOA (Nintendo of America) when we asked NOA how to do something on the dev kit and they discovered we had the kit before they did. As for Micro Controllers, I've never had my hands on any devkit better than your Inchworm. I must get around to adding my comments to the review thread. Mike.

7th November 2006, 02:49 AM	(permalink)
Pommie	BTW, anyone that has hardware debugging facilities, could you mention any features like "hardware trace", "break on location =" etc. that it has. Mike.

7th November 2006, 02:50 AM	(permalink)
philba	Atmel and Microchip weren't even an idea when the first ones came out. Intel had what they called an In Circuit Emulator (ICE) in the mid 70s starting with the 8080 (there may well have been one for the 4040). They were big, cranky monsters. All the microprocessor vendors had ICEs for their chips so it's hard to say who was first. I would think intel or motorola. Basically they were the outgrowth of logic analyzers. I had an ICE86 which I hated because it was basically a crutch. I saw too many engineers relying on it instead of using logic and a simple debug monitor to deduce the problem. I could usually track down a bug in less time than it took to power the thing up and go though all the riggamarole to get it working.

7th November 2006, 03:44 AM	(permalink)
Papabravo	We built hardware debuggers for the 8008 (predecessor of the 8080) in 1971. Before that we had hardware debuggers for the TTL logic units that we designed in 1967. They used 4K EMM core stacks with about a 1 microsecond access time.

7th November 2006, 04:07 AM	(permalink)
William At MyBlueRoom	Many CPUs had ICE they still do, I recall seeing a 386 ICE once. But built in hardware debugging (inside the CPU). Who started that? __________________ Bill Home of the Firefly PIC Tutor Inchworm ICD2 http://www.blueroomelectronics.com

7th November 2006, 04:40 AM	(permalink)
philba	If you count sw interrupt instructions, that goes way back. The 80386 had internal context dump (ICE support). I think it also had breakpoint registers.

7th November 2006, 01:55 PM	(permalink)
Papabravo	The Motorola 6809 had a software interrupt instruction ca. 1982, and the 6502 of KIM-I, PET, and Apple fame had a single byte BRK instruction ca.1976, and the 8080/8085, ca. 1974 had the RESTART instructions, seven of them plus RST 0 which was equivalent to a RESET.

9th November 2006, 07:21 PM	(permalink)
mramos1	In the early 80's we used Intel and Motorola, mostly motorola. And the 8" floppy drives cluck and clunked as you stepped through code it hit a break point. ADC maybe, do not recall the name. I owned a MetaICE 8031/51 but sold it on ebay a year or so ago.. 5.25 floppies with that bad boy..

10th November 2006, 06:37 AM	(permalink)
William At MyBlueRoom	Look at the price of this ICE. I hope there's great tech support. http://microcontrollershop.com/produ...12a114a8207502 __________________ Bill Home of the Firefly PIC Tutor Inchworm ICD2 http://www.blueroomelectronics.com