Newby in PIC microprocesors (some tips to get started)(plz) - Electronic Circuits Projects Diagrams Free

Someone Electro · 28th February 2005, 05:29 PM

Well im a newby in PIC microprocesors.

It all started like this:
One boring day i came reding stuf on this forun and seen an topin about PIC microprocesors so having nothing to do i went searching the web about PICs and fount out there interesting and chep too(its amazing a vhole computer in a litle chip that costs about $1)

So i thogt of ordering samples from microchip
PIC16LF84A (it sems wery popular on the net)
PIC18LF2455 (48Mhz,fast USB,a lot of I/O pins...what cod you want more)

they bouth also bouth have an wide suply voltage(2-5.5V)

then i came over an simple serial programer for it (the atached gif)

It shod work for the PIC16LF84A but wod it work for the PIC18LF2455
PIC18LF2455 has in circuit programing whith 2 pins

I want to have these on an euro bord so ii wod have an simple 4 pin conector that i can program it thru.

for the PIC18LF2455 the USB sounds cool but i have no idea what to do whith it

You guys think there wod be some othe realy got PIC out there?
Or meaby some tutorials.

PS:
Microchip is updating the site at the moment (you can get in the buy section)

**Jay.slovak** · 28th February 2005, 08:13 PM

Welcome in PIC world!
Yes, PIC's are very polular, you will find some tutorials at Nigel Goodwin's page, just browse this forum.
I think you shouldn't go for 16LF84 because it's old and there are plenty of newer chips available, e.g 16F628... You might be interested in 8 pin microchips such as 12F675.... you can use it as 555's ... :P
About your programmer: you need at least 5 pin's not, four and if your PIC supports ICSP and your software supports the chip, there is no problem programming it.
USB is a complicated interface, you should start with RS-232....

Good Luck :lol:

**Nigel Goodwin** · 28th February 2005, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay.slovak

I think you shouldn't go for 16LF84 because it's old and there are plenty of newer chips available, e.g 16F628

Yes, the 84 is long obselete, it was replaced by the 16F628, which has a higher spec and is cheaper.

Someone Electro · 28th February 2005, 08:58 PM

ok the PIC16F628 is on my check list
but i miss analog ports (I still love analog)

I had an idea for the USB i cod make an sound card or an slow osciloscope (12MB/s is serius speed)

Im planing on some IR comunicaton and robotics

The stuff i want on an pic
-20Mhz is good (40Mhz is cool)
-analog inputs (i just cant leve my loved analog)
-In circuit programing (so i dont have to put up with complicated programers)
-a lot of I/O pins (18pin pakege is good)
-a wide operating volage is useful (an ajustable regulator can be used)
-an comperator is also usefull (light folowing)

so you know any PIC i cod use (it sod be useabol in the most varius projects)

by the way is there an good alternative for crastals (they can cost more than the PIC itself )

whats about programing?I only know Visual Basic (i controled an motor whith it.it was proboly my only project tha involed a litle digital stuff)

wen i know somting what PICs is best to get i will order an sample of them.

I also herd that USB is one of the most complicated interfaces.(i will stick to serial an parallel port)

meaby i will get an LCD so i cod have much beter way to reed its data

finaly my creations cod be smarter,much smarter

I talk to muck.dont i?

**Jay.slovak** · 28th February 2005, 09:08 PM

I must inform you, that most PIC's with USB work only in "slow speed" USB mode, which is 1.5Mbit fast, not Normal Speed's 12...

PIC 18F877 may fit your needs, it's 40pin, has A/D, PWM, ICSP....
I suppose you start with Asembly programming first, and then move to higher level language such as C or Basic.
I highly prefer Serial port to USB or even parallel port, beacuse of it's low pin & software requirements, altough level converter is needed. And using inteligent LCD with HD44780 is soo easy....

PS: it's good to talk a lot... 8)

Someone Electro · 28th February 2005, 09:17 PM

how much time dose microchip take to deliver a sample in slovene?

I HATE the PIC programing language but il have to get used to it

I suprysed how long it tok me to realize how useful PICs are!

**Jay.slovak** · 28th February 2005, 09:32 PM

I don't know how long it takes.... I'm from Slovakia and samples are *not* sended here

Actually I love PIC language because I learned 8051's in school and I didn't like it, since 51's are old fassioned and primitive (I know that there are new Atmels and others and that 90% of all used chips are 51's). When I discovered PIC's I was shocked :shock:

Someone Electro · 28th February 2005, 09:41 PM

40pins is too much the monster wodnt fit on my breadbord(it wod let me 10 rows out off 30) I like 26 pin ones too(17 of 30 rws are left ower)

besides 40 pins its too much.i cant think of an exsample that wod reqaire that much I/O.

is serial fast enugh for audio transmision?Let me gues:NO

I once seen a PIC that reconises live images from an cam(simple stuf like finding an red ball)

About C?I have absolutly no what ever knowlege of it. (I got Visual C++ whith VisualBasic)

The crocodile technology simulator can program very basic programs very simple drawing of flowcharts (boxes,circles...that represent comands).It can simulate it an a circuit and upload it to a real PIC.So i will do my first programs in that

I think of ordering two or three difrent PICs (simple and a litle bit more complicated)

You guys are a good frendly help!thanks.

I gota go now

**Jay.slovak** · 28th February 2005, 09:52 PM

You want an example?
I'm working on one project that is using PIC18F4320. That's the 40 pin "monster" and I got only 2 pins left! It's a power supply and its usinfg SPI, USART, 5 A/D's, LCD, KeyPad, 2 PWM's, and a bunch of other special features...
You were right obout RS-232, it's not fast enaugh for audio, nor Video recognition... :shock:

Happy experimenting.... :lol:

Oznog · 1st March 2005, 12:55 AM

I would start with a mainstream part. The PIC18F252 and 18F452 make up the bulk of PIC18 sales, very common. The 252 is 28 pins, with a width that fits perfectly on breadboards. The 452 is a 40 pin. They operate at 40MHz, but you use a 10MHz xtal on it with the 4x hardware PLL.

There's also the newer lines like the PIC18F4620, similar to the 452 but basically twice the ROM and a lot more data RAM.

Someone Electro · 1st March 2005, 05:48 AM

2 only rows left on a breadbord?!?I need some reows for stuff like powertransistors conroling motors and stuff like that.

PIC18F4320 realy is a monster! 8K flash,13 A/D,40Mhz,36 I/O
It dosent have in circuit programing

PIC18F252 is a litle devil on the outside but a monster on the inside (no wonder they sell so good)
32K flash!!!yep this is the mother of all PICs.
it has evryting big ones have but this one is small to fit on an breadbord
newer has twice the flash!?! 64K!!!you cod proboly store an short audio track on the much flashI wont even fill up 1K of flash.

thanks for the tip

Now i want one smaler for simple projects (the big one takes almost half of my breadbord).
waht i want it to do

basic stuff)
-20Mhz is enuf
-18 pin (it still has an respecteble amount of I/O)
-wide operating voltage (to run on litium cells directly)
-in circuit programing
-1K flash is more than i need
-wondt nind having an an internal oscilator (no damn cristals) (not a big deal it dosen have this)

I didnt mean recognison i ment transmision.Sending 8bit audio thru the serial and then geting it out the chip (by using the 8 output resistor trick i cod get analog signal out of it) or the PIC sending audio to PC

Serial is known to be slow but garanted to deliver data in one pece.So it wod proboly be to slow (but whith the paralel port this is not a chalege since you have 8 outputs coming out)

the pixe project is interesting an LED display whith an PIC

PICs rock!!!

Someone Electro · 1st March 2005, 05:51 AM

shod the programer i atached work for PIC18F252 (i dont want to fry it,i yust want to flash it)

Someone Electro · 1st March 2005, 07:32 AM

Basic looks simple (much like VisualBasic) cod it be programed in a PIC (i gues not)

Its proboly slower than asembely language (Like VisualBasic is much slower than C )

Crocolile technology simulator dosent give any mesege that it wod not work on an PIC if you try to export the program(In the simulaton was the PIC16F84)

only asembely language works an PICs.right?

The PIC16F88 is small but powerfull too (18pins,7K flash,ICSP,1 A/D,2 comperators,wide operating voltage,procesor and read/write program memory)

so i will order 2 of PIC16F88 and 2 of PIC18F252.

are these good PICs

**Nigel Goodwin** · 1st March 2005, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Someone Electro

only asembely language works an PICs.right?

Only assembly language works on ANY processor (pretty well), even a PC runs nothing except asembler.

High level compilers (BASIC, C etc.) create assembler from their high level source code, where as interpreters usually create a 'P code' which is then run by an interpreter (which is an assembler program).

Both BASIC and C compilers are available (plus Pascal as well) for the PIC, but you should learm assembler first - you can't use the high level languages effectively without a reasonable knowledge of assembler.

As for PIC's, I would suggest sticking to the 16F series at first, the 16F876 is a 28 pin 'skinny DIP' version of the 40 pin 877, you might also like the 16F819 or 16F88 - both 18 pin, both with internal oscillators (no crystal required), both with internal analogue to digital converters. But the 16F628 is a good standard PIC to use - all the chips I've mentioned use the same 14 bit core, and run the same code (with only very minor changes, due to hardware extras).

Someone Electro · 1st March 2005, 08:33 AM

yay!!! that mens basic works whith these PICs.

only thing i need now is a program to upload my programs in th PIC

things i got so farr:
-programer schematic
-infromation about PICs
-breadbord
-regulator
-buch of electronic stuff(LEDs,resistors,transistors...) (hey resistors an transistors rimes)

stuff i dont have:
-an built programer (gota check the junk box for an old serial cable)
-the acual PICs
-asembely language in my nudle

I will order the samples from microhip so i can get carkin whith PIC

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28th February 2005, 08:13 PM	(permalink)
Jay.slovak	Welcome in PIC world! Yes, PIC's are very polular, you will find some tutorials at Nigel Goodwin's page, just browse this forum. I think you shouldn't go for 16LF84 because it's old and there are plenty of newer chips available, e.g 16F628... You might be interested in 8 pin microchips such as 12F675.... you can use it as 555's ... :P About your programmer: you need at least 5 pin's not, four and if your PIC supports ICSP and your software supports the chip, there is no problem programming it. USB is a complicated interface, you should start with RS-232.... Good Luck :lol: __________________ "I share, thus I am" Jay.slovak Read this! ICD2 Clone Best PIC/DsPIC Bootloader Read my Inchworm ICD2 review!

28th February 2005, 08:58 PM	(permalink)
Someone Electro	ok the PIC16F628 is on my check list but i miss analog ports (I still love analog) I had an idea for the USB i cod make an sound card or an slow osciloscope (12MB/s is serius speed) Im planing on some IR comunicaton and robotics The stuff i want on an pic -20Mhz is good (40Mhz is cool) -analog inputs (i just cant leve my loved analog) -In circuit programing (so i dont have to put up with complicated programers) -a lot of I/O pins (18pin pakege is good) -a wide operating volage is useful (an ajustable regulator can be used) -an comperator is also usefull (light folowing) so you know any PIC i cod use (it sod be useabol in the most varius projects) by the way is there an good alternative for crastals (they can cost more than the PIC itself ) whats about programing?I only know Visual Basic (i controled an motor whith it.it was proboly my only project tha involed a litle digital stuff) wen i know somting what PICs is best to get i will order an sample of them. I also herd that USB is one of the most complicated interfaces.(i will stick to serial an parallel port) meaby i will get an LCD so i cod have much beter way to reed its data finaly my creations cod be smarter,much smarter I talk to muck.dont i? __________________ Il give you shocking experience.

28th February 2005, 09:08 PM	(permalink)
Jay.slovak	I must inform you, that most PIC's with USB work only in "slow speed" USB mode, which is 1.5Mbit fast, not Normal Speed's 12... PIC 18F877 may fit your needs, it's 40pin, has A/D, PWM, ICSP.... I suppose you start with Asembly programming first, and then move to higher level language such as C or Basic. I highly prefer Serial port to USB or even parallel port, beacuse of it's low pin & software requirements, altough level converter is needed. And using inteligent LCD with HD44780 is soo easy.... PS: it's good to talk a lot... 8) __________________ "I share, thus I am" Jay.slovak Read this! ICD2 Clone Best PIC/DsPIC Bootloader Read my Inchworm ICD2 review!

28th February 2005, 09:17 PM	(permalink)
Someone Electro	how much time dose microchip take to deliver a sample in slovene? I HATE the PIC programing language but il have to get used to it I suprysed how long it tok me to realize how useful PICs are! __________________ Il give you shocking experience.

28th February 2005, 09:32 PM	(permalink)
Jay.slovak	I don't know how long it takes.... I'm from Slovakia and samples are not sended here Actually I love PIC language because I learned 8051's in school and I didn't like it, since 51's are old fassioned and primitive (I know that there are new Atmels and others and that 90% of all used chips are 51's). When I discovered PIC's I was shocked :shock: __________________ "I share, thus I am" Jay.slovak Read this! ICD2 Clone Best PIC/DsPIC Bootloader Read my Inchworm ICD2 review!

28th February 2005, 09:41 PM	(permalink)
Someone Electro	40pins is too much the monster wodnt fit on my breadbord(it wod let me 10 rows out off 30) I like 26 pin ones too(17 of 30 rws are left ower) besides 40 pins its too much.i cant think of an exsample that wod reqaire that much I/O. is serial fast enugh for audio transmision?Let me gues:NO I once seen a PIC that reconises live images from an cam(simple stuf like finding an red ball) About C?I have absolutly no what ever knowlege of it. (I got Visual C++ whith VisualBasic) The crocodile technology simulator can program very basic programs very simple drawing of flowcharts (boxes,circles...that represent comands).It can simulate it an a circuit and upload it to a real PIC.So i will do my first programs in that I think of ordering two or three difrent PICs (simple and a litle bit more complicated) You guys are a good frendly help!thanks. I gota go now __________________ Il give you shocking experience.

28th February 2005, 09:52 PM	(permalink)
Jay.slovak	You want an example? I'm working on one project that is using PIC18F4320. That's the 40 pin "monster" and I got only 2 pins left! It's a power supply and its usinfg SPI, USART, 5 A/D's, LCD, KeyPad, 2 PWM's, and a bunch of other special features... You were right obout RS-232, it's not fast enaugh for audio, nor Video recognition... :shock: Happy experimenting.... :lol: __________________ "I share, thus I am" Jay.slovak Read this! ICD2 Clone Best PIC/DsPIC Bootloader Read my Inchworm ICD2 review!

1st March 2005, 12:55 AM	(permalink)
Oznog	I would start with a mainstream part. The PIC18F252 and 18F452 make up the bulk of PIC18 sales, very common. The 252 is 28 pins, with a width that fits perfectly on breadboards. The 452 is a 40 pin. They operate at 40MHz, but you use a 10MHz xtal on it with the 4x hardware PLL. There's also the newer lines like the PIC18F4620, similar to the 452 but basically twice the ROM and a lot more data RAM.

1st March 2005, 05:48 AM	(permalink)
Someone Electro	2 only rows left on a breadbord?!?I need some reows for stuff like powertransistors conroling motors and stuff like that. PIC18F4320 realy is a monster! 8K flash,13 A/D,40Mhz,36 I/O It dosent have in circuit programing PIC18F252 is a litle devil on the outside but a monster on the inside (no wonder they sell so good) 32K flash!!!yep this is the mother of all PICs. it has evryting big ones have but this one is small to fit on an breadbord newer has twice the flash!?! 64K!!!you cod proboly store an short audio track on the much flashI wont even fill up 1K of flash. thanks for the tip Now i want one smaler for simple projects (the big one takes almost half of my breadbord). waht i want it to dobasic stuff) -20Mhz is enuf -18 pin (it still has an respecteble amount of I/O) -wide operating voltage (to run on litium cells directly) -in circuit programing -1K flash is more than i need -wondt nind having an an internal oscilator (no damn cristals) (not a big deal it dosen have this) I didnt mean recognison i ment transmision.Sending 8bit audio thru the serial and then geting it out the chip (by using the 8 output resistor trick i cod get analog signal out of it) or the PIC sending audio to PC Serial is known to be slow but garanted to deliver data in one pece.So it wod proboly be to slow (but whith the paralel port this is not a chalege since you have 8 outputs coming out) the pixe project is interesting an LED display whith an PIC PICs rock!!! __________________ Il give you shocking experience.

1st March 2005, 05:51 AM	(permalink)
Someone Electro	shod the programer i atached work for PIC18F252 (i dont want to fry it,i yust want to flash it) __________________ Il give you shocking experience.

1st March 2005, 07:32 AM	(permalink)
Someone Electro	Basic looks simple (much like VisualBasic) cod it be programed in a PIC (i gues not) Its proboly slower than asembely language (Like VisualBasic is much slower than C ) Crocolile technology simulator dosent give any mesege that it wod not work on an PIC if you try to export the program(In the simulaton was the PIC16F84) only asembely language works an PICs.right? The PIC16F88 is small but powerfull too (18pins,7K flash,ICSP,1 A/D,2 comperators,wide operating voltage,procesor and read/write program memory) so i will order 2 of PIC16F88 and 2 of PIC18F252. are these good PICs __________________ Il give you shocking experience.

1st March 2005, 08:33 AM	(permalink)
Someone Electro	yay!!! that mens basic works whith these PICs. only thing i need now is a program to upload my programs in th PIC things i got so farr: -programer schematic -infromation about PICs -breadbord -regulator -buch of electronic stuff(LEDs,resistors,transistors...) (hey resistors an transistors rimes) stuff i dont have: -an built programer (gota check the junk box for an old serial cable) -the acual PICs -asembely language in my nudle I will order the samples from microhip so i can get carkin whith PIC __________________ Il give you shocking experience.