Uhmmmm...I kind of "learned" about graphite making carbon arc lamps using #1 pencil lead as the carbon rods. Fun but, not overly practical.

Depending on the level of sophistication you are willing to deal with (assuming that you are indeed serious about actually building your project), you might want to start with a digitizing tablet. They've not only figured out the X-Y positioning, they also have a pressure sensor in their stylus.

FRYS.com*|*Aiptek

Usually, they have a clear overlay that allows you to put stuff you want to trace under.

You'd have to find out what the implications are of using multiple pieces at once (if that's needed for your game) but, I'm sure there would be ways to code the pieces to avoid interaction. You know, sort of like being able to connect many USB devices to a computer and having them sorted out and operated independently even when they are connected to random USB ports.

Again, I have to question if you're both serious about doing this and if you have the skills...or if you just got a wild notion that you are trying to figure out. If your intention is to actually try to build it, at some point you really do need to stop picking people's brains and gather up some parts and do some experimenting. There's actually quite a lot you can try with simple, home-made and inexpensive components and parts.

Just a thought. I wonder if a triangular sheet might actually allow you to "triangulate" a position by sensing the resistances from the game piece relative to the "corners". Or maybe if the measurement, on a square sheet, could be multiplexed to alternately measure the resistance up and down and then left to right so that you might calculate the position.

The point is, that there are ways to apprach this (including pooh-poohing it) and, while it's not something I'm tempted to do at this time, is not an uninteresting idea.

 

This might help:
can i make detectable whlsets with resistance paint

 

Would variable resistors work for this? Is there a less expensive form of resistance?

 

What type of materials would you recommend for the grid with films? I started making something that began to look as difficult to make as a loom.

 

Smallest copper wire you can find and clear tape!


Lay out your grid without the tape and then roll it smooth with a big roller and steel plate if possible. That will flatten out the points where the wires intersect. Then reassemble with the tape so that the crossing points dont conduct to each other.

Its just a theoretical idea though.

__________________
"Issue a general safety warning. Then look the other way and allow stupidity the chance to eliminate itself." -- tcmtech
"Those who can, Will. Those who can't, will achieve positions of power over those who can and then promptly stop them." -- tcmtech
"Your impossibility may just be my day to day routine." -- tcmtech

 

I haven’t found a balance between prices and neatness. Perhaps this topic belongs more in the electronic theory rather than projects section of this site. However, while comparing the sensitivity of alternating and direct current to changes in distance and time, resistive materials, non-resistive closed circuits having predetermined lengths, and the edges of materials is something that I don’t know a lot about, it is interesting to me. Were you thinking that a triangular sheet might be a useful alternative to a square sheet because of the way that electricity might react to the edges of the sheet? I don’t even know if this would be avoidable with a triangular sheet. Would the electricity have to be introduced at the same time to all of the locations on both sides of a square sheet, and would this work? These are things that I think that might be good to know in advance in addition to experimenting with. The reason why I asked about the list was because I was experimenting with the idea of measuring resistance as a function of distance with direct current in two dimensions.

 

I like the idea but unless the wires were spaced far apart – decreasing the precision with which the location of pieces could be measured to an unacceptable amount, I think that participants would have to be overly precautions about where they placed the pieces to avoid the insulating tape.

 

SO what exactly is this thing your making and how small are the playing pieces?

If things get to small human dexterity can get to be a problem. With under inch square spacing pick and place can get difficult for complex games.

Look at standard checkers or chess boards there is a reason they keep the spaces typically rather large.
Us bigger built German/Scandinavian/Russian folks have index finger widths around 3/4 of an inch and thumbs around an inch!

We dont like tiny toys! Cell phones, car radios, TV remotes. ugh.. to small of buttons to close together.

At a certain level of complexity optical scanning and bar code recognition may become a more practical method of sensing.

__________________
"Issue a general safety warning. Then look the other way and allow stupidity the chance to eliminate itself." -- tcmtech
"Those who can, Will. Those who can't, will achieve positions of power over those who can and then promptly stop them." -- tcmtech
"Your impossibility may just be my day to day routine." -- tcmtech

 

The game is generalized so as to be able to represent a variety of land and sea formations and statuses of game pieces. I haven’t thought of any reason why the size of the game pieces would have to be related to the size of the conductors on the base of the pieces. A more precise continuous representation of locations – rather than discrete representations, is preferable, however. I’m trying to figure out how to communicate information to and from the pieces without having wires run to the pieces separate from those connected to the sheet.

 

I can tell you, without fear of condradiction, that trying to do what you have in mind with "resistances" will lead to nothing but headaches. It's difficult enough to maintain variable resistances accurately in something as simple as a rheostat or potentiometer. Trying to do it on an open plane with manually placed game pieces will be a nightmare.

You really need to be thinking about something that will be more interactive between the playing field and the pieces. And, yes...that's a lot more sophisticated and complex.

Having said that, I reiterate: Gather up some parts and play around with your ideas. Don't expect to end up with a working system but, it will force you to face some of the problems people here have experienced in their own experimenting and can give you a good feel for what you can't do...and, if you're very lucky...maybe a few ideas of what you can do.

My recommendation for a first step is to get an Ohmmeter (analog if possible) and some graphite (grind up some #1 and #2 pencil lead) and some likely surfaces (paper, plastic, cardboard, wood, etc.). Smear some graphite on things and slide the Ohmmeter probes around on it and see how it all seems to work...or not work...

 

At this point the computer programing to make this work would be better spent on a GUI system that uses a fully integrated LCD touch screen and you just drag the piece icons around digitally.

Since a computer is already involved in the game and needs to know where every piece is at on a map just move the pieces to the virtual world and be done with it!

The computer already has a virtual map of the game so it can do what ever it is doing anyway.

Theres a reason the computer games at the arcade centers dont use movable pieces and its not just because kids would take them!

__________________
"Issue a general safety warning. Then look the other way and allow stupidity the chance to eliminate itself." -- tcmtech
"Those who can, Will. Those who can't, will achieve positions of power over those who can and then promptly stop them." -- tcmtech
"Your impossibility may just be my day to day routine." -- tcmtech

 

That's certainly the "modern" thinking. But, it can come with problems. If the desire is to learn some electronics, there's not much sense in writing GUI code for a processor. It's just a completely different field of interest.

Sure, I could dress myself in the morning by keeping a bolt of cloth and sewing acoutrements nearby and ginning up a new wardrobe each day but, if I'm just not into sewing, so I'll do the seemingly unrelated tasks which may include things like driving and shopping and dealing with cash and credit cards in order to attire myself.

I can't speak for others who may find the programming more fun than the electronics.

 

WTF? You lost me on that one. Your trying to sew a mechanical interface. Save the time and do what your saying in you example go and do the seemingly unrelated stuff like buying pre made touch sensor systems with your credit card and be done with it.

The only part I got was not doing programming. YOU already have to do programing to get the computer to recognize and understand what and where for this map concept anyway.

I take this as saying I want to learn welding and fabrication so I am going to build an expensive luxury car but in order to save on rubber since I cant weld to that I am going to build it as a single wheel design.
Its not that it cant be done or work but the practicality and design of it will take loads more control systems, hardware, and design cost than just adding the three more tires! (two more for you UK fellas!)

I dont care for programing and find any reasonable way to avoid computer or micro controller implementation when I can. But some times its just the most practical solution to a complex control problem. Like it or not!

SO what part does the processor play in this game? If its keeping track of pieces there has to be a reason why?


To me this sounds like unrealistic dream that is way over your head due to lack of Knowledge of practical application electronics and computer control/interface systems.

If you want to learn electronics start small and work up. Dont start with attempting a full on computer main board when you apparently dont know how basic human machine interface logic works yet.

__________________
"Issue a general safety warning. Then look the other way and allow stupidity the chance to eliminate itself." -- tcmtech
"Those who can, Will. Those who can't, will achieve positions of power over those who can and then promptly stop them." -- tcmtech
"Your impossibility may just be my day to day routine." -- tcmtech

 

I can't really disagree with you that computers do indeed make a lot of stuff that was traditionally done with electronic circuits, cheaper and more practical. And, for a lot of people, more enjoyable.

But, there is something satisfying about looking at a real live opponent sitting across the other side of a chess board and the tactile feel of the material and shape of the men. Even turning them into photo-realistic medieval warriors and pretending to pick them up and move them with a finger on a screen just isn't the same. Even the wii concept is a poor second best to actually doing most of the simulations people do with the wii (although admittedly, some of the actions that simply have no real-life counterpart are better because...well, because they just can't be done any other way).

I don't know what game was envisioned for the resistive sheet project or how needed a processor would be to accomplish it but, there have been a lot of electronic games that preceed the advent of the microchip. How about, Operation? Something as simple as a magnet that would pick out "organs" but, without touching the sides of the "incision" lest making a simple electrical contact would light a light or buzz a buzzer? Even today, it's still a fairly popular game in it's original 1960s form.

I, myself, don't have anything against modernizing and simplifying with a processor of some sort but, I do balk at learning a high level language and then compiling it to the processor's native lingo. I tend to deal with the processor in a simpler, more direct way, through it's instruction set. Fortunately, I'm not into sophisticated gaming systems and programming automated Preditor strikes in Iraq and Afghanistan or NASA missions, etc.

For people who enjoy the programming aspects of the business, I say, "great". For those (like myself) who prefer the electronics circuitry aspects of the business I also say, "great". For those few who can actually do both (and, trust me, for every 1000 who talk about it, I'd guess there's less than 1 who can actually successfully do it), I say, "gee, I'm envious".

For this thread, I was most interested in the electro-mechanics of it rather than the pie-in-the-sky promise of how it might all fit into some sophisticated, computerized gaming system. I get a sense that the trivial, ennui details of how to place pieces on a board are of little interest to you but, the big, fancy stuff has caught your fancy. Maybe not but, it just feels that way.

 

Actually I am not a gamer. I never cared for games in general. I dont even play board games with my niece!
For me sitting in front of a computer and immersing myself in a virtual reality is dumb. I have a whole world of real reality to interact with.

I am also not a programmer either. My programming skills are PLC type industrial stuff.
What I program is related to making a machine faster, better, easier to operate and more cost effective to run.

I simply thought I would jump in on this thread and pass along what I know about designing basic human interface systems from the practicality point of it nothing more.

If you are one that likes the tactile approach to games this really confuses me as to why you would want a complex interactive computer game board!

I regularly deal with people that want to make unrealistic and unnecessarily complex devices to do simple things off the shelf components are all ready capable of. That was what impression I got from here.

I approach life in a simple way, I like simple. Simple works for me because I am simple. Simple is easy to understand and make work. Simple is not complex!

__________________
"Issue a general safety warning. Then look the other way and allow stupidity the chance to eliminate itself." -- tcmtech
"Those who can, Will. Those who can't, will achieve positions of power over those who can and then promptly stop them." -- tcmtech
"Your impossibility may just be my day to day routine." -- tcmtech