Originally Posted by whiz115

glue in the printer? even if it is dried...isn't it dangerous to mess the printer?!

how many PCBs you guys do each day and magazines aren't enough for you?

If it's dried I don't see the problem.

Anyway can we please keep to the original topic of release agents?

So far I've been pretty happy with magazine paper. I've never had any problems and think that proprietary papers such as Pulsar and Press 'n' Peel are a total waste of money. Magazine paper is free and if it can be improved at very little cost then all the better.

I don't have a problem with people using overpriced paper or even talking about it on the forum but there are plenty of threads for that.

There are lots of common chemicals that are water soluble and dry hard, here are some I can think of off the top of my head:

Wallpaper paste.
Hairspray.
Hair gel.
Soap.
Acacia gum (the sticky stuff on labels you need to lick).
Cherry tree resin.

All of the above are probably worth a try, I don't know whether they'll all stand up to the heat from the iron.

Magazine paper actually works slightly better on the inked areas. The kind of ink the magazine printer's use is totally different to toner and seems to act like a release agent. After peeling the paper off there are white lines where the PCB traces were.

Deodorant might not be soluble enough.

I've never seen plain rice paper before, is it expensive?

Originally Posted by Hero999

I've never had any problems and think that proprietary papers such as Pulsar and Press 'n' Peel are a total waste of money.
...
I don't have a problem with people using overpriced paper or even talking about it on the forum but there are plenty of threads for that.

When don't you tell us how you really feel.



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Originally Posted by HarveyH42

Isn't Mucilage made from mucus? Or was that just gross, grade school humor...

I looked it up, and mucilage is, among other things, the flytrap goo of carnivorous plants. Now that's gross.

Originally Posted by Hero999

{snip}it's dried I don't see the problem.{snip}
So far I've been pretty happy with magazine paper. I've never had any problems and think that proprietary papers such as Pulsar and Press 'n' Peel are a total waste of money. Magazine paper is free and if it can be improved at very little cost then all the better.
{snip}I don't have a problem with people using overpriced paper or even talking about it on the forum but there are plenty of threads for that.
{snip}

I don't know if I fully agree with you on everything in your post but never mind..........
I think I am making progress on the magazine papers ability to release the toner much, much faster.
Elmer's (new) School Glue Gel ($2.29 us for 4 oz)
seems to do the job. Found it accidentally this afternoon.
After smearing it on the magazine paper wrinkles badly during drying and must be ironed before the PCB pattern can be printed.
Made a mistake and left my iron temp. at 300°F,
that was too hot but I went ahead with the test anyhow. The printed pattern looked good under a magnifying glass, except for a few places were it had bubbled due to the excess heat.
The transfer looked fine except for the places with the bubbles. After ironing for about three minutes I dipped the PCB directly in water. After a few minutes soaking, the paper just about fell off!
And the traces looked great.
Now I just have to find out the best way to get the glue on, using my finger is not my preferred way. Maybe I can dilute the glue with water and dip a whole page at the time.
Also I have to find the correct temp., to iron the paper before printing.

Question: Am I the only one here that is doing any experimenting?

I would be experimenting with mucilage but I found my 35 year old bottle (Woolworths with a 59 cent price tag) is dried up. I went out searching for it at Michaels but nobody's heard of it.

Hero999 has asked us not to hijack his thread so I am starting a new one. We can talk about the pulsar system there.

pcbFX questions (aka Pulsar)

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Originally Posted by Rolf

{snip}And the traces looked great.
Now I just have to find out the best way to get the glue on, using my finger is not my preferred way. Maybe I can dilute the glue with water and dip a whole page at the time.
Also I have to find the correct temp., to iron the paper before printing. {snip}

Here is a picture of the PCB, still soaking wet, after soaking for about two minutes. Note the transfer paper came off in one piece!
There are some distortions in traces due to water droplets acting like little lenses.
The transfer paper was ironed at 200°F to removed the wrinkles that the Elmer's gel glue caused. Paper has to be dry first.

Next I will try to dilute the glue and dip a whole sheet in at one time. Stay tuned!

Originally Posted by HarveyH42

But doesn't it seem odd, that you refuse to pay $1.50 for a full sheet that's ready to go and works fine,

I'd rather pay £0 for something that works fine.

The only think I would like to improve it the soak time, if the paper could fall away as soon as it gets wet, it would be great.

but more than willing to run thin magazine paper (jammed in mine, 2 out 3 tries),

I've never had any problems with it jamming before, perhaps the paper you used was too thin?

The magazine paper I use isn't much lighter than normal printer paper.

Anyway, I do have a few constructive ideas...
Since you are going to coat the paper yourself, go with something heavier than magazine paper. It won't curl and wrinkle as much. Before you coat, you can tape it down to a smooth surface (glass maybe), apply the goo, and use something like a non-stick Teflon cutting board/sheet, maybe even some of that wax paper... over the coating, then a heavy smooth surface to keep it pressed flat. Everything is reusable, except the paper.

Going thicker might not help, any paper will curl and bubble if you get it too soggy.

I think using something less wet is probably a better solution.

Originally Posted by Hero999

I don't have a problem with people using overpriced paper or even talking about it on the forum but there are plenty of threads for that.

Based on this I created a thread for people interested in talking about the Pulsar system. In the new Pulsar thread you posted:

Originally Posted by Hero999

You need to use magazine paper, there's no need to waste your money!

Apparently you do have a problem with people who would rather spend 1.5 cents per square inch rather then burn their time reinventing the wheel.

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