DIY Toner Transfer Paper (cheap and easy)) - Page 6 - Electronic Circuits Projects Diagrams Free

DirtyLude · 2nd July 2009, 10:23 PM

My second etch with the Muriatic Acid/Peroxide didn't go so well. It seems to have lost all it's etching ability. I ended up adding more peroxide after 15 minutes and heating it up a bit. I've got the tank left open right now to evaporate it off some and concentrate it a bit.

It worked, but it ate under the etch resist on my poor board, so it looks like it has a rash.

Hero999 · 2nd July 2009, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrDEM

Someone didn't catch the phrase old copper

I did, I just didn't understand it.

Is that just the copper wire on the back?

Quote:

reusing a old used board IMHO it looks pretty good.

Seriously, have you been drinking colloidal silver?

Even if I overlook that, it's still a pretty shoddy job. What's going on with the resistor with the long scruffy leads stretching from one side of the PCB to the other?

It's a obviously a PCB design fault; that can be fixed but it won't be pretty.

If I did not have the option of making a new PCB (which I would do if possible) I would have drilled another hole, mounted the resistor straight and tacked some insulated hook-up wire to make the connection on the other side. If I wasn't allowed to drill a new hole, I would have covered the resistor with clear heatshrink to stop it from shorting.

Using an old board is no excuse for such poor workmanship.

If the board is old then it doesn't appear to have been properly cleaned before reusing it. As much of the excess solder as possible should have been removed (using a solder sucker and desolder braid) and the whole thing should have been washed in alcohol to get rid of the remaining flux.

Again, as I said before, some of the solder joints appear to be poor but it's not that clear looking at the tiny picture.

3v0 · 2nd July 2009, 11:53 PM

BE did say it was his first try. It may not be great looking but you need to give him credit for getting it done. More then a few people never get this far.

If people get too much crap about their efforts they will not post them.

DirtyLude · 3rd July 2009, 12:03 AM

^ I tried out your Pulsar paper. I'll have a review later. Unfortunately the final board is a little rough looking due to the problem with the etchant.

be80be · 3rd July 2009, 03:10 AM

hero999 you anit hurt my feeling the board had the holes in it when I found it.
It came off a motor controller and i sanded off where four wires was solder to it and reused it just to try it out never did it before the one hole on the right hit where two
resistors went and the jumper I forgot to run the ground to the header I like junk have a basement full of it. and plan to use it some where. LOL

be80be · 3rd July 2009, 03:18 AM

Wait about a week when I get some new copper in and I remake it there will not be any jumpers and long resistor for jumper lol

DirtyLude · 3rd July 2009, 07:54 PM

So, I bought some Pulsar paper to try it out. Here's a step thru of my process with a mini review. This is just a breadboard module for a Stellaris Cortex-M3 ECU. The last photo's show it beside and ARM7 module I had made up, which was much more complex, due to the external PLL and external VCore routing. I wouldn't be able to do the ARM7 on a single sided board without a lot of jumpers and it looking pretty messy.

I wont inline the images, you can click on them on the bottom.

1. Print design. I'll print out the design on a normal piece of paper, then cut out the resist paper to completely cover it and print again. The piece of paper, I then cut out to use as a template for cutting the copper clad the right size. You'll see the cut out paper later.

2. File off the raised copper around the edges of the board. If you don't, the toner won't stick to the edges.

3. Roughen/clean the surface of the board. I use some gray scotchbrite pad. Then I use some alcohol and paper to clean off fingerprints.

4. Board is ready for transfer. The white paper here is the regular printer paper I had cut out to use as a template for cutting the copper.

5. Pattern is ironed on with a regular iron. The Pulsar paper just drops off once it's been wetted, which is really nice. Only problem I have here is that it releases too well. You can see the places where the toner has not covered in the black areas. Top left edge of the board and bottom edge. The photo paper I usually use, is a real hassle to remove, but it fills those areas with gunk, so I usually don't get this problem. I see why they sell that green TRF stuff. I also found that the Pulsar paper tends to squish lines easier. Perhaps that's because none of the toner soaks into the paper. I filled in these area's with sharpie marker.

6. Done. Well, I skipped the etch, drill, populate phase. I had a real problem etching the board. The new etchant, like I mentioned earlier, seems to have died on me. The board looks dull because the etch took way too long to do its thing.

7. This is the first time I've done this, but I decided at the last moment to put on a silkscreen with the pin labeling. Turned out pretty good, except for the SCL, SDA.

3v0 · 3rd July 2009, 08:14 PM

Not bad for a first effort

The more toner the printer can deliver the better the black areas are. A fresh cartridge will do a better job then an older one. You can also use the hatch fill to require less toner.

You may have less problems with squished lines with a laminator which delivers more uniform heat and pressure. I understand there is a point where the toner is sticky but not liquid. If you are interested you can get them on Ebay for $25 including S&H.

The green foil cover small holes in the toner. It would not have covered the large holes.

3v0

Hero999 · 3rd July 2009, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by be80be

hero999 you anit hurt my feeling the board had the holes in it when I found it.
It came off a motor controller and i sanded off where four wires was solder to it and reused it just to try it out never did it before the one hole on the right hit where two
resistors went and the jumper I forgot to run the ground to the header I like junk have a basement full of it. and plan to use it some where. LOL

I'm glad you're not offended.

Sorry for not saying anything good; I'll remedy that now: the board appears to have been etched properly and is very goo for a first attempt.

I hope I've helped you with my scathing criticism and that it doesn't put you off posting your work again.

I'm surprised my reputation hasn't moved into the red for this.

be80be · 3rd July 2009, 09:49 PM

It's ok I sanded that board to much and if you seen where i put solder over the track
that's why. You think it had jumpers on it that looked bad you see it now I put the switches pad wrong and had to cut all of them and jumper them lol

mramos1 · 3rd July 2009, 10:59 PM

I still would like to try the pulsar paper. When I have time.

But, the picture paper (staples, hammermill) work well.

The problem with it, is when you drop it in the water to remove it, it is coated on the back side (as it is coated on both sides). I do not iron it on directly with the iron without a paper towel over it so I do not have to deal with the back coated side.

I dip it for a minute in warm water, scuff it with a plastic brush (to get the coating off the back side of the ironed on paper), then dip it again to get it to release when the water can actually get though the paper.

Then thumbs to remove the other coating on the copper once the paper is off.

Mr RB · 4th July 2009, 08:06 AM

Nice work DirtyLude.

The pulsar still doesn't seem to hold the sharpness of lines that blue pressnpeel does though, but maybe that's offset because its so much cheaper than pnp??

MrDEB · 4th July 2009, 12:32 PM

I purchased one and after finding out that putting the board through several times then cooling immediately (right when it comes out put into some water) the traces are 100% transferred.
Apply the green TFF then etch.
big difference from using an iron.
Also the board thickness = thinner is better IMHO

be80be · 4th July 2009, 12:52 PM

Hay Hero999 tell me if this board would look better

Hero999 · 4th July 2009, 01:05 PM

That's much better.

The only problem is some of the angles might be too tight to etch reliably. I tend to avoid anything <45°.

I've ringed round the fairly obvious ones. There may be some I've missed, they're appear to be some accute angles on the resistors but it's difficult to tell because of the low resolution and it appears to have gone through a JPG conversion at some stage.

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2nd July 2009, 10:23 PM	#76
DirtyLude	My second etch with the Muriatic Acid/Peroxide didn't go so well. It seems to have lost all it's etching ability. I ended up adding more peroxide after 15 minutes and heating it up a bit. I've got the tank left open right now to evaporate it off some and concentrate it a bit. It worked, but it ate under the etch resist on my poor board, so it looks like it has a rash. __________________ Mark Higgins

2nd July 2009, 11:53 PM	#78
3v0	BE did say it was his first try. It may not be great looking but you need to give him credit for getting it done. More then a few people never get this far. If people get too much crap about their efforts they will not post them. __________________ Please post questions to the forums. PM's are for personal communication. BCHS/3v0's Tutorials Junebug USB PIC programmer kit., USB Bit Whacker, The 15 Minute Printed Circuit Board! (+drill time)

3rd July 2009, 12:03 AM	#79
DirtyLude	^ I tried out your Pulsar paper. I'll have a review later. Unfortunately the final board is a little rough looking due to the problem with the etchant. __________________ Mark Higgins

3rd July 2009, 03:10 AM	#80
be80be	hero999 you anit hurt my feeling the board had the holes in it when I found it. It came off a motor controller and i sanded off where four wires was solder to it and reused it just to try it out never did it before the one hole on the right hit where two resistors went and the jumper I forgot to run the ground to the header I like junk have a basement full of it. and plan to use it some where. LOL __________________ Burt http://mybe80be.com http://stores.shop.ebay.com/mybe80be__W0QQ_armrsZ1

3rd July 2009, 03:18 AM	#81
be80be	Wait about a week when I get some new copper in and I remake it there will not be any jumpers and long resistor for jumper lol __________________ Burt http://mybe80be.com http://stores.shop.ebay.com/mybe80be__W0QQ_armrsZ1

3rd July 2009, 07:54 PM	#82
DirtyLude	So, I bought some Pulsar paper to try it out. Here's a step thru of my process with a mini review. This is just a breadboard module for a Stellaris Cortex-M3 ECU. The last photo's show it beside and ARM7 module I had made up, which was much more complex, due to the external PLL and external VCore routing. I wouldn't be able to do the ARM7 on a single sided board without a lot of jumpers and it looking pretty messy. I wont inline the images, you can click on them on the bottom. 1. Print design. I'll print out the design on a normal piece of paper, then cut out the resist paper to completely cover it and print again. The piece of paper, I then cut out to use as a template for cutting the copper clad the right size. You'll see the cut out paper later. 2. File off the raised copper around the edges of the board. If you don't, the toner won't stick to the edges. 3. Roughen/clean the surface of the board. I use some gray scotchbrite pad. Then I use some alcohol and paper to clean off fingerprints. 4. Board is ready for transfer. The white paper here is the regular printer paper I had cut out to use as a template for cutting the copper. 5. Pattern is ironed on with a regular iron. The Pulsar paper just drops off once it's been wetted, which is really nice. Only problem I have here is that it releases too well. You can see the places where the toner has not covered in the black areas. Top left edge of the board and bottom edge. The photo paper I usually use, is a real hassle to remove, but it fills those areas with gunk, so I usually don't get this problem. I see why they sell that green TRF stuff. I also found that the Pulsar paper tends to squish lines easier. Perhaps that's because none of the toner soaks into the paper. I filled in these area's with sharpie marker. 6. Done. Well, I skipped the etch, drill, populate phase. I had a real problem etching the board. The new etchant, like I mentioned earlier, seems to have died on me. The board looks dull because the etch took way too long to do its thing. 7. This is the first time I've done this, but I decided at the last moment to put on a silkscreen with the pin labeling. Turned out pretty good, except for the SCL, SDA. Attached Thumbnails __________________ Mark Higgins

3rd July 2009, 08:14 PM	#83
3v0	Not bad for a first effort The more toner the printer can deliver the better the black areas are. A fresh cartridge will do a better job then an older one. You can also use the hatch fill to require less toner. You may have less problems with squished lines with a laminator which delivers more uniform heat and pressure. I understand there is a point where the toner is sticky but not liquid. If you are interested you can get them on Ebay for $25 including S&H. The green foil cover small holes in the toner. It would not have covered the large holes. 3v0 __________________ Please post questions to the forums. PM's are for personal communication. BCHS/3v0's Tutorials Junebug USB PIC programmer kit., USB Bit Whacker, The 15 Minute Printed Circuit Board! (+drill time)

3rd July 2009, 09:49 PM	#85
be80be	It's ok I sanded that board to much and if you seen where i put solder over the track that's why. You think it had jumpers on it that looked bad you see it now I put the switches pad wrong and had to cut all of them and jumper them lol __________________ Burt http://mybe80be.com http://stores.shop.ebay.com/mybe80be__W0QQ_armrsZ1

3rd July 2009, 10:59 PM	#86
mramos1	I still would like to try the pulsar paper. When I have time. But, the picture paper (staples, hammermill) work well. The problem with it, is when you drop it in the water to remove it, it is coated on the back side (as it is coated on both sides). I do not iron it on directly with the iron without a paper towel over it so I do not have to deal with the back coated side. I dip it for a minute in warm water, scuff it with a plastic brush (to get the coating off the back side of the ironed on paper), then dip it again to get it to release when the water can actually get though the paper. Then thumbs to remove the other coating on the copper once the paper is off.

4th July 2009, 08:06 AM	#87
Mr RB	Nice work DirtyLude. The pulsar still doesn't seem to hold the sharpness of lines that blue pressnpeel does though, but maybe that's offset because its so much cheaper than pnp??

4th July 2009, 12:32 PM	#88
MrDEB	thelaminator works great I purchased one and after finding out that putting the board through several times then cooling immediately (right when it comes out put into some water) the traces are 100% transferred. Apply the green TFF then etch. big difference from using an iron. Also the board thickness = thinner is better IMHO

4th July 2009, 12:52 PM	#89
be80be	Hay Hero999 tell me if this board would look better Attached Thumbnails __________________ Burt http://mybe80be.com http://stores.shop.ebay.com/mybe80be__W0QQ_armrsZ1

4th July 2009, 01:05 PM	#90
Hero999	That's much better. The only problem is some of the angles might be too tight to etch reliably. I tend to avoid anything <45°. I've ringed round the fairly obvious ones. There may be some I've missed, they're appear to be some accute angles on the resistors but it's difficult to tell because of the low resolution and it appears to have gone through a JPG conversion at some stage. Attached Thumbnails __________________ I do not answer private messages asking for help because no one else can: benefit from advice I may give or correct me if I'm wrong. Please ask on the open forum if you have a question and I'll be happy to help, if I know the answer.