DIY Toner Transfer Paper (cheap and easy)) - Page 4 - Electronic Circuits Projects Diagrams Free

Rolf · 28th June 2009, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirtyLude

You must be doing some pretty large boards to need a bucket. 20cm is about as large as I've ever needed, so I just use a plastic sandwich container. For the FC etchant, I would shine a light underneath, which would warm the etchant and also I'd be able to see when the etching was complete, because I could see through the board.

I don't see any benefit to the plastic bag and I can see it being a mess.

Ya, I have one bottle of FC and one bottle of AP crystals that I'll never use.

Here's a tip. Don't sniff the muriatic acid, like I did. That'll wake you up.

I have an ultrasonic cleaner that will accommodate an object as large as a CD. I tried to figure out how to use it as an etcher. The bowl is SS so I cant poor the etchant into it directly. But if I use the plastic bag method then I can put it into the cleaner. I would first put a strong mixture of baking soda and water in the bowl as a safety measure.
What do you think, please comment.

3v0 · 28th June 2009, 03:55 PM

It sounds like a good idea in that getting fresh etchant to the copper is what works.

I wonder if the ultrasonic cleaner will remove the toner too ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rolf

I have an ultrasonic cleaner that will accommodate an object as large as a CD. I tried to figure out how to use it as an etcher. The bowl is SS so I cant poor the etchant into it directly. But if I use the plastic bag method then I can put it into the cleaner. I would first put a strong mixture of baking soda and water in the bowl as a safety measure.
What do you think, please comment.

Rolf · 28th June 2009, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3v0

It sounds like a good idea in that getting fresh etchant to the copper is what works.

I wonder if the ultrasonic cleaner will remove the toner too ?

Good point! Just ran a 15 minute test in water, it loosened some of the transfer paper on one design. The other design was clean already. None of the traces on either design was effected after the cleaner ran for two spurts of 8 minutes each. So I don't think there is anything to worry about. Guess I will have a go of it for my next board.

P.S. I know 8+8=16 but I had the PCB out several times for inspection without stopping the US timer.

mramos1 · 28th June 2009, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirtyLude

Here's a tip. Don't sniff the muriatic acid, like I did. That'll wake you up.

Did that the first time. And it did wake me up.

I heard the AP was good also and was going to try it. But this does work quite well over Ferric Chloride. Will hang on to the FC for a couple more months and put it on Craigslist to get rid of it.

I was hoping Rolf would try hair spray, the glue stick looked pretty good.

Maybe I will skip AP and try the Pulsar paper next.

mramos1 · 28th June 2009, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rolf

I have an ultrasonic cleaner that will accommodate an object as large as a CD. I tried to figure out how to use it as an etcher. The bowl is SS so I cant poor the etchant into it directly. But if I use the plastic bag method then I can put it into the cleaner. I would first put a strong mixture of baking soda and water in the bowl as a safety measure.
What do you think, please comment.

I will try that on my next board. I have a 2.5 liter ultrasonic cleaner (clean carbs in it). Stainless like yours. I was using plastic cups too, maybe I will set a cup in the cleaner and see how fast the copper comes off and pray it does not remove toner

Mine heats as well.

3v0 · 28th June 2009, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mramos1

I will try that on my next board. I have a 2.5 liter ultrasonic cleaner (clean carbs in it). Stainless like yours.

Sounds like a good idea. Going to have to check ebay for something large enough for a 4BBL.

DirtyLude · 29th June 2009, 03:14 AM

I think a gentle rocking of the etchant tank would do better to agitate the etchant than an ultrasonic cleaner. If I did anything, I might make up a small platform with a servo, but as it is, just knocking the board about a bit with the end of a plastic clip seems to work fine, especially with the acid etchant, which doesn't really need much in the way of agitation.

Rolf · 29th June 2009, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirtyLude

I think a gentle rocking of the etchant tank would do better to agitate the etchant than an ultrasonic cleaner. If I did anything, I might make up a small platform with a servo, but as it is, just knocking the board about a bit with the end of a plastic clip seems to work fine, especially with the acid et chant, which doesn't really need much in the way of agitation.

"I think a gentle rocking of the et chant tank would do better to agitate the et chant than an ultrasonic cleaner"
Is this just a guess? I don't like to play games so I am going to find out for myself, unless someone that have actually tried it post their experience.
Meanwhile, I will stick with my turkey basting method, it works fine.

DirtyLude · 29th June 2009, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rolf

Is this just a guess? I don't like to play games so I am going to find out for myself, unless someone that have actually tried it post their experience.
Meanwhile, I will stick with my turkey basting method, it works fine.

When I say "I think" it means it's just a guess. But I still don't see the point. Is it not etching fast enough for you?

3v0 · 29th June 2009, 04:25 PM

I etch in a glass bread pan. I set the pan on a block of foam rubber. A little down pressure on the pan is enough to rock the fluid. Works. I expect the turkey baster is faster.

It would be nice to add a heating pad or such to keep the etchant hot.

This is not my idea of the ultimate etcher but it works well for single boards.

Rolf · 29th June 2009, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3v0

I etch in a glass bread pan. I set the pan on a block of foam rubber. A little down pressure on the pan is enough to rock the fluid. Works. I expect the turkey baster is faster.

I think you can judge the speed by observing the color of the copper. When I squirt the board it immediately turns a bright and shiny. I cant remember getting that when I just rocked it back and fourth.
It takes about 15 min at room temp.

mramos1 · 29th June 2009, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3v0

Sounds like a good idea. Going to have to check ebay for something large enough for a 4BBL.

Works very well, if I can do boards in it, better. And I brought the extended warranty so I will use it a lot more. No 4barrel in this one.

Almost. You can clean and flip and clean, that works too.

MrDEB · 30th June 2009, 05:20 AM

over at the Pulsar site they suggest using a soft sponge or pad and gently wiping the boards while etching
with gloves on of coarse.
and safety glasses
if using the muratic acid / hydrogen peroxid method its
1 part muratic acid in first
THEN
add 2 parts hydrogen peroxide
have seen reference to this. do not reverse where you add the acid to the hydrogen peroxide.something about chemistry??
adding a base to acid??? is the proper procdure
double check first.

be80be · 30th June 2009, 05:31 AM

I etched My first board so far so good I used photo paper and the old lady's iron to iron it on first try I didn't get all of it on the copper second time it came out fine I think I'm going
to like this Lol.

Mr RB · 30th June 2009, 05:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rolf

"I think a gentle rocking of the etchant tank would do better to agitate the et chant than an ultrasonic cleaner"
Is this just a guess? I don't like to play games so I am going to find out for myself, unless someone that have actually tried it post their experience.
Meanwhile, I will stick with my turkey basting method, it works fine.

Well how about an educated guess... Everything about ultrasonic cleaners is optimised to focus all the power on removing stuff from surfaces... It may not be the best agitator for an etchant tank.

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29th June 2009, 03:14 AM	#52
DirtyLude	I think a gentle rocking of the etchant tank would do better to agitate the etchant than an ultrasonic cleaner. If I did anything, I might make up a small platform with a servo, but as it is, just knocking the board about a bit with the end of a plastic clip seems to work fine, especially with the acid etchant, which doesn't really need much in the way of agitation. __________________ Mark Higgins

29th June 2009, 04:25 PM	#55
3v0	I etch in a glass bread pan. I set the pan on a block of foam rubber. A little down pressure on the pan is enough to rock the fluid. Works. I expect the turkey baster is faster. It would be nice to add a heating pad or such to keep the etchant hot. This is not my idea of the ultimate etcher but it works well for single boards. __________________ Please post questions to the forums. PM's are for personal communication. BCHS/3v0's Tutorials Junebug USB PIC programmer kit., USB Bit Whacker, The 15 Minute Printed Circuit Board! (+drill time)

30th June 2009, 05:20 AM	#58
MrDEB	Use a sponge or pad over at the Pulsar site they suggest using a soft sponge or pad and gently wiping the boards while etching with gloves on of coarse. and safety glasses if using the muratic acid / hydrogen peroxid method its 1 part muratic acid in first THEN add 2 parts hydrogen peroxide have seen reference to this. do not reverse where you add the acid to the hydrogen peroxide.something about chemistry?? adding a base to acid??? is the proper procdure double check first.

30th June 2009, 05:31 AM	#59
be80be	I etched My first board so far so good I used photo paper and the old lady's iron to iron it on first try I didn't get all of it on the copper second time it came out fine I think I'm going to like this Lol. __________________ Burt http://mybe80be.com http://stores.shop.ebay.com/mybe80be__W0QQ_armrsZ1 Last edited by be80be; 30th June 2009 at 05:31 AM.