+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2
1 2 Last
Results 1 to 15 of 16

Thread: electric motor wires

  1. #1
    confounded Newbie
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    london
    Posts
    204

    Default electric motor wires

    Hi, i took this motor out of a washing machine.
    Anyone know what all the wires are for?
    Attached Images


  2. #2
    tcmtech Excellent tcmtech Excellent tcmtech Excellent tcmtech Excellent tcmtech Excellent tcmtech Excellent tcmtech Excellent tcmtech Excellent tcmtech Excellent
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Sawyer, North Dakota, USA
    Posts
    3,284
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default

    Hard to say exactly. But it looks like you have a reversable DC or univeral type motor. two of the wires run the field coils(the stationalry ones on the outer part)Two of them will go to the bruches. and it also looks like it may have some sort of speed sensor on the end.

    Try putting the field and brush wires in series. That should spin it up. but if its a DC only it may not run very well on AC that way. To reverse it just reverse the connections one either the field or the armature.

    Can you give us a model of the wash machine? Perhaps some one here has actual schematica or hands onexperiance with it. then they can tell you exactly what you have and how to hook it up.
    "When in doubt, LIGHT IT ON FIRE AND SEE WHAT COLOR OF SMOKE IT CAN MAKE!" -- tcmtech

  3. #3
    Menticol Excellent Menticol Excellent Menticol Excellent Menticol Excellent Menticol Excellent Menticol Excellent
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Bogota, Colombia
    Posts
    432
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    maybe is an AC motor and the other wiring is from the starting capacitor
    just a guess...
    Felipe
    Visit my DIY Blog http://engallamientos.wordpress.com/ Updated Mar 15 / 2010

  4. #4
    imix500 Newbie
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Putnam, NY
    Posts
    80

    Default

    If it was from a very new or commercial machine, it could also be a three phase motor used with variable frequency drives.

  5. #5
    tcmtech Excellent tcmtech Excellent tcmtech Excellent tcmtech Excellent tcmtech Excellent tcmtech Excellent tcmtech Excellent tcmtech Excellent tcmtech Excellent
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Sawyer, North Dakota, USA
    Posts
    3,284
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default

    Nope! Take a look at the pictures closer. I see a commutator and a set of brush holders! dont you?
    Last edited by tcmtech; 29th March 2009 at 02:24 AM.
    "When in doubt, LIGHT IT ON FIRE AND SEE WHAT COLOR OF SMOKE IT CAN MAKE!" -- tcmtech

  6. #6
    imix500 Newbie
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Putnam, NY
    Posts
    80

    Default

    Ah, right you are. Maybe the hub on the back is an encoder or tach for speed feedback?

  7. #7
    duffy Excellent duffy Excellent duffy Excellent duffy Excellent duffy Excellent duffy Excellent
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    nortern 'sconsin
    Posts
    1,822

    Default

    Looks like a "universal motor" to me, too. The white and black appear to be the brushes, yellow and brown are probably the field. That thing on the back with the two red wires is probably a magnetic speed transducer, it has a coil and a magnet on the shaft, gives you a sine wave with a frequency proportional to the speed.

  8. #8
    confounded Newbie
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    london
    Posts
    204

    Default

    thx for replying guys.

    its from a domestic washing machine, about 3 years old. The bearing went on the machine and it so i got to take all the electronic goodies.

    I can confirm that the black and white wires go to brushes.

    When tcmtech says try putting field and brush wires in series, does he mean how i have drawn my sketch?


    Its 240V 50 hz, would i be able to buy a 12v to 240v inverter and power this straight off my car?
    Attached Images

  9. #9
    Hero999 Excellent Hero999 Excellent Hero999 Excellent Hero999 Excellent Hero999 Excellent Hero999 Excellent Hero999 Excellent Hero999 Excellent Hero999 Excellent Hero999 Excellent
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    England
    Posts
    13,170

    Default

    That would work but I think it will be cheaper and more efficient just to buy a 12V motor.

    Are you sure it's parallel wound? Most motors like this tend to be series wound.

    You can power it directly from DC, in fact it will be more efficient run from DC than. It won't be very fast off 12V though. If you want to power it from DC, use a lower voltage than 230V, due to the fact that the winding inductance won't limit the current. As a guess, running it from 48VDC will probably give you similar performance to the mains.

    I do not answer private messages asking for help because no one else can: benefit from advice I may give or correct me if I'm wrong.

    Please ask on the open forum if you have a question and I'll be happy to help,
    if I know the answer.

  10. #10
    confounded Newbie
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    london
    Posts
    204

    Default

    I'm afraid i'm struggling to understand how these motors work. Googling universal motor i see that it is designed to run off both AC and DC. There seems to be 2 ways to control speed, pwm or phase shifting, why cant i just vary the voltage with a potentiometer?

    i have no idea if its parallel or series wound. I'm not exactly sure what this means, is this when brushes and field are inline, so i would then connect my motor as in my new sketch below?

    How can i tell if its series wound or parallel wound?
    Attached Images

  11. #11
    Sceadwian Excellent Sceadwian Excellent Sceadwian Excellent Sceadwian Excellent Sceadwian Excellent Sceadwian Excellent Sceadwian Excellent
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Rochester, NY U.S.
    Posts
    9,826
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    You would need one hell of a potentiometer to vary the voltage to that thing!
    "Because I be what I be. I would tell you what you want to know if I
    could, mum, but I be a cat, and no cat anywhere ever gave anyone a
    straight answer, har har."

  12. #12
    tcmtech Excellent tcmtech Excellent tcmtech Excellent tcmtech Excellent tcmtech Excellent tcmtech Excellent tcmtech Excellent tcmtech Excellent tcmtech Excellent
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Sawyer, North Dakota, USA
    Posts
    3,284
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default

    I would go with the connection that you have in the second post. And like they said try it at a lower voltage first.
    As far as AC or DC series wound universal motors generealy dont have any change in efficiency from one to the other. AC does tend to give some a hum or growl when under load. But at the same input voltage there is no real measurable difference.

    Does a power drill or any other device with a universal motor have any speed or power difference between AC or DC input?

    In a mass production level like a wash machine they may have went with a simple phase control circuit to varry the speed.
    But I am just guessing.
    "When in doubt, LIGHT IT ON FIRE AND SEE WHAT COLOR OF SMOKE IT CAN MAKE!" -- tcmtech

  13. #13
    duffy Excellent duffy Excellent duffy Excellent duffy Excellent duffy Excellent duffy Excellent
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    nortern 'sconsin
    Posts
    1,822

    Default

    CAREFUL WITH THE SERIES WOUND MOTOR - they tend to speed up and blow themselves to hell if you run them unloaded.

    My experience is they are usually parallel wound. Could it be they are series for 220V and parallel for 110V?

    Hero999, do you have a formula for relating the DC equivalent voltage of a universal motor to the AC rating? I looked around, couldn't find one, be a handy thing to know.

  14. #14
    Hero999 Excellent Hero999 Excellent Hero999 Excellent Hero999 Excellent Hero999 Excellent Hero999 Excellent Hero999 Excellent Hero999 Excellent Hero999 Excellent Hero999 Excellent
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    England
    Posts
    13,170

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tcmtech View Post
    As far as AC or DC series wound universal motors generealy dont have any change in efficiency from one to the other. AC does tend to give some a hum or growl when under load. But at the same input voltage there is no real measurable difference.
    When run from DC there are less losses because the current doesn't reverse there will be no hysteresis losses in the field coils and the eddy loss will also be lower.

    Quote Originally Posted by duffy View Post
    CAREFUL WITH THE SERIES WOUND MOTOR - they tend to speed up and blow themselves to hell if you run them unloaded.
    I found that out for my self by removing the fan from a series wound vacuum cleaner motor. Luckily the motor wasn't too badly damaged, just one of the brushes suffered a bit of wear.

    My experience is they are usually parallel wound. Could it be they are series for 220V and parallel for 110V?
    That may be true.
    It probably also depends on the appliance, I'd imagine electric drills to be parallel as they're often operated unloaded. I assumed a washing machine would be series because it's always loaded but I'm obviously wrong.

    Hero999, do you have a formula for relating the DC equivalent voltage of a universal motor to the AC rating? I looked around, couldn't find one, be a handy thing to know.
    No, I just discovered I could power a 230V vacuum cleaner motor well off 48V, actually it was probably closer to 56V and it might not have been running at full power.

    I'll have a play around if I ever manage to get hold of a load of SLAs to connect up in series. I was at work when I did this last.

    This kind of thing could be handy for example if you want to use power tools in a damp environment, to eliminate the dangers associated with mains, you could stick DC connectors on them and run them from batteries or a DC PSU in a safe location.
    Last edited by Hero999; 29th March 2009 at 07:05 PM.

    I do not answer private messages asking for help because no one else can: benefit from advice I may give or correct me if I'm wrong.

    Please ask on the open forum if you have a question and I'll be happy to help,
    if I know the answer.

  15. #15
    confounded Newbie
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    london
    Posts
    204

    Default

    Thanks for the warning duffy.

    what kind of current should i expect with 24v DC? I plan to try running this motor using my bench power supply at 24V DC but my power supply only goes to 3 Amps, is this a problem?

    Just to be clear i wont damage the motor if i try powering it as a series wound configuration if it turns out to be a parallel wound one?

    Thx for helping guys.

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2
1 2 Last

Similar Threads

  1. motor wires
    By confounded in forum General Electronics Chat
    Replies: 0
    Latest: 19th February 2009, 10:56 AM
  2. rheostat for electric motor
    By bunghole in forum Electronic Projects Design/Ideas/Reviews
    Replies: 20
    Latest: 22nd January 2008, 05:15 AM
  3. Stepper Motor input wires
    By maheshcet in forum Robotics Chat
    Replies: 4
    Latest: 25th September 2007, 04:59 AM
  4. electric motor queston
    By tkrobi in forum General Electronics Chat
    Replies: 2
    Latest: 5th August 2007, 10:59 PM
  5. DC Electric motor TACH
    By mazur50 in forum General Electronics Chat
    Replies: 11
    Latest: 20th April 2007, 02:38 AM

Tags for this Thread