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Thread: Problem with 74LS90.. some help please??

  1. #1
    patroclus Newbie
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    Default Problem with 74LS90.. some help please??

    Hello to everyone. I need some help and I don't find it anywhere.

    I've using some 7490 IC for counting purposes, with a simple 555 circuit for clock pulses. Everything was fine.
    Yesterday I had to replace one of the 7490 counter, so I used a 74LS90 instead, because I had no other. Surprise!! the counter didn't work!! and I changed no other thing.. I'm really confused..

    Where the 7490 worked, this new 74LS90 doesn't... I tried everything in my breadboard but don't have any idea why this happends. The counter does not count correctly, and changes state not only in 1 to 0 clock transition, but also in 0 to 1. Counting seems random..

    I tried 3 74LS90, and 3 7490; all 7490 worked, none of the 74LS90 did. I bought each one separately. Maybe the 74LS90's are defective??

    I REALLY aprecite some help.
    Greetings.


  2. #2
    ChrisP Good ChrisP Good
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    Of course, the 74LS90 chip is designed for maximum current levels approximately half of those used with the 7490, but the primary difference -- the one probably causing your troubles -- is the minimum pulse widths on the resets. The 7490 calls for a minimum 15ns pulse width, while the 74LS90 requires 30ns pulses for resetting. Here is a TI datasheet that covers both chips...

  3. #3
    k7elp60 Excellent k7elp60 Excellent k7elp60 Excellent k7elp60 Excellent k7elp60 Excellent
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    Sounds like possible power supply problems. Do you have a electrolytic bypass capacitor from Vcc and ground on the breadboard? Do you have
    a 0.1uf at the same points? If not try a 22 uf electrolytic capacitor and a
    0.1 ceramic in parallel from Vcc to ground on the proto board
    The great thing about electronics is unlimited ways to do the job. The only limit is one\'s imagination. I generally think my way is best.
    Show me a different way. I have an open mind.

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    patroclus Newbie
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    Thanks for answering.

    ChrisP, I don't thnik it is a reset problem, as I ground both reset inputs and don't use them now, and the pulses coming from the 555 are about 1 Hz.

    k7elp60, I didn't try to use a bypass capacitator.. the power supply is +5V stabilized. I'll try adding the 22uF capacitator between V+ and GND, but.. why use a 0.1 ceramic capacitator in parallel?? Wouldn't the 22uF be enough??

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    Phasor Newbie
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    I'll try adding the 22uF capacitator between V+ and GND, but.. why use a 0.1 ceramic capacitator in parallel?? Wouldn't the 22uF be enough??
    Electrolytic capacitors have a higher internal resistance than other types - this can cause 'slow' response when working at high frequencies.

    The 0.1u ceramic has a lower internal resistance, and is better for 'catching' the high frequency transients.

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    k7elp60 Excellent k7elp60 Excellent k7elp60 Excellent k7elp60 Excellent k7elp60 Excellent
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    I have built a lot of circuits with the 555 timer with TTL circuits,as often as I forget the electrolytic bypass on the proto board I have intermittent problems. I generally use a 100uf because my power supplies have be adjustable ones and they can stand the 100uf on the output lines. Some
    fixed power supply's can have problems with a large value of electrolytic
    capacitor across it output lines, thats why I recommended a 22uf. I would put it as close to the 555 pins 1 and 8 as possible.

    TTL is not only sensitive to supply and ground-line noise, but it also generates a lot of its own noise when any totem-pled output structure changes state and drqws heavy current spike from the supply lines. These narrow spikes must be kept from going through the supply system.
    These despikeing capacitors with the shortest leads are recommended.

    Don Lancaster, in his TTL cookbook recommends not only the despiking capacitors, but a 10uf 6V tantalum capacitor across the +5 lines where they leave the board
    Ned
    The great thing about electronics is unlimited ways to do the job. The only limit is one\'s imagination. I generally think my way is best.
    Show me a different way. I have an open mind.

  7. #7
    patroclus Newbie
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    do I have to use a bypass capacitor before every IC??
    Or just at the input, where power supply??

    I'm going to use a LM7805, so I though on using a capacitor between its common and input pins, and maybe, another one after it, between Output and common pins... I'm I doing well?? Is still necesary a bypass capacitor before the other IC??

    Thanks

  8. #8
    k7elp60 Excellent k7elp60 Excellent k7elp60 Excellent k7elp60 Excellent k7elp60 Excellent
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    The only time you need a bypass capacitor on the input of the 7805 is if you have more than about 3 inches of wire between the powersupply filter capacitor and the input pin of the 7805. If you are using greater than 22uf in the output circuit of the 7805 the manufactures recommend a diode like a 1N4001 connected cathode to input pin and anode to output pin.
    This is to protect the IC against discharge currents of the output capacitor.
    Especially if the input happens to get shorted to ground.

    As far as bypass capacitors for the TTL on one is needed for several packages. But most protoboards have a lot of extra contact area and
    longer than necessary wires, so from habit I usually put one 0.1 for every
    TTL on the protoboard. I generally use the multilayer ceramics that have 0.1 or 0.2 inch hole spacing.
    The great thing about electronics is unlimited ways to do the job. The only limit is one\'s imagination. I generally think my way is best.
    Show me a different way. I have an open mind.

  9. #9
    patroclus Newbie
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    I don't know if I understud exactly the last thing you said. So should I use a small ceramic capacitor close to each TTL?? Is it that?
    What happends if it is not close to them?

    I'm gonna make the circuit on two universal board (soldering), so the 7805 is on one of them, along with 5 TTLs, and the other one containing another 8 TTLs. Initially I was going to use only an output capacitor along with the 1n4001 (where the 7805), and planned no other. I though that using a good filtering at the output, it was not necesary to put other capacitors along the rest of the circuit...

  10. #10
    k7elp60 Excellent k7elp60 Excellent k7elp60 Excellent k7elp60 Excellent k7elp60 Excellent
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    I would put a minimum of 2, 0.1uf ceramic capacitors on the board with
    5 TTL circuits and a minumum of 3, 0.1uf ceramic capacitors on the board with 8 TTL circuits. They don't have to be the miniature ones. I spoke of these as I worked at a electronic distributor and had access to these at
    a real good price. Regular disk will work, but if you get much over 100 volts ones they will be quite large. You can always solder them on the bottom of the board between the Vcc pin and Ground on the TTL pins.
    The great thing about electronics is unlimited ways to do the job. The only limit is one\'s imagination. I generally think my way is best.
    Show me a different way. I have an open mind.

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