3v0

The talk about processors and jobs has me thinking about what it takes for a young person to become a professional engineer or comp sci type in hi tech.

a) Exposure. Contribute by doing what you can to expose the youth in your areas to what we do. Or what fun can be had.

This can take the form of mentoring, classroom demonstrations, visit with the science club, etc

b) Good K12 education is required to ensure that students have proper backgrounds in math and science. That they learn to spell, think, dream..

Join the local PTA or get elected to the schoolboard.
Find the time to teach a class at the local HS.
Providing private instruction to talented children

c) Universities need resources. Encourage you company to contribute materials, man power and if possible, money.

Have your employer send surplus test equipment to the U of your choice. Do the same with useful excess parts inventory. You may be able to teach a class as a visiting engineer at the local U. If you company is into donating to education have a voice in where it is sent.

As a collage student you can help with the exposure part. Go back to you HS and speak in your science classes etc.

As a new hire you can start watching where the old equipment is going. During my first year out of grad school I was in the right place at the right time to send my U a lab full of microcontroller emulators. You have to keep your eyes open and not be afraid to step up to the plate.

Even an anti social person an help. How about developing demos for others to use. Somthing like a graphical GUI for programing one of futz's 3x3x3 LED cubes. That would make a sweet demo.

Why should you. To give back. To keep one more bright kid out of wallmarts stockroom.

Salgat

Great advice, I have found that a lot of our professors at my school love hand me downs from industry.

audioguru

A neighbour's boy was 14 and was ready to drop out of school because he didn't understand math. His mother asked if I could help.
I tutored him and now he is in university and is doing well (drinking well?).

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Uncle $crooge

stevez

One of many stories I am able to tell. A mid-20's young man in a Navy uniform stopped by my home to see my wife and I. I wasn't there. Last time she saw him he was 10 yrs old - lived a few doors down. He was completing his enlistment in a construction/carpentry specialty and planned to start a construction company of his own. When he was younger his dad worked two jobs - his mom worked one to make ends meet. He was always welcome in my shop where I'd give him scraps of wood, nails etc to make things - and provided some instruction. He wanted to thank me for that and share the profound influence it had on his choice of career.

As you suggest, there are many ways to give back. As with many aspects of giving there is more than just the satisfaction as a reward to the "giver." Teacher or mentors levels of skill or proficiency increase right along with the student.

Nice to think about this from time to time.

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stevez

audioguru

Yeah, when the boy asked a few questions and I didn't know the answers immediately then I looked for and found the answers. So I also learned.

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Uncle $crooge

crusty

I find it amazing how much of your life you can waste learning stuff, then once you learn it, you're probably going to forget, even though you have a piece of paper saying that you do remember it. Nothing like spending 20-30 years educating yourself stuff that you won't remember by next week, then working a job you think you are going to be happy with, since you spent so much damn time working towards it. Only to be disappointed and die or get cancer by the time your 50. Life's short, some people's shorter than others. Advancing technology can't save us. Like a rocket scientist that can't keep his willy in his pants. Sure he's smart, and that's exactly why he had 10 kids on a overpopulated planet.(sarcasm intended). life is short, enjoy it, all that time with your head in the books could have been your entire life. Sure you may be smart when you die, but you're dead.

Hero999

Good idea, I have loads of spare components I can donate to my local engineering training centre.

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Get Opera it's simply a superb browser.

Krumlink

On the other hand, you can spend your entire life floating from homeless shelter to homeless shelter, wishing only that you had stuck it to it on the books.

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MechTronics

audioguru

I know a few "professional students". They are in school for more than half their life and now are studying to get a PHD. They might get a good job but they won't have any experience.

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Uncle $crooge

crusty

Oh so if you don't spend your life with your head in the books, then you'll be homeless. Try this for example. Try taking everyone you know whom has a job, and try to question them on the GED test, see how much of it they really remember after 12 years of study. Just because we study or read doesn't mean we're educated. Most of it we just try to "remember" things just long enough to get by and exam or test, that's if we don't cheat. Most humans can only remember things by constantly using the information over and over, even then if we don't use it every other day we will forget, unless you're one of those special people who can remember every minute of their entire lives. Besides if we were all "too smart" and had a high paying leisure job, who the hell would get "REAL" things done in the world, certainly not most "educated" people cause they think they're too good to do any sort of manual labor. You do not need a multi-thousand dollar PHd from a Harvard(any college for that matter) to be educated in anything. They teach you things you can learn on your own, IF you want to study them. Thing is college loves to fill your mind full of other things than what you're really there to try and learn. Like what the hell does the revolutionary war have to do with a colpitts circuit? Nothing besides they want to jack you for more money for another useless class. Not to mention money, but also time. If you want to learn something don't pull out your wallet and your watch. READ about it, ask questions to people who have experience with it. I did spend 2 years of my life in a tech school, only 1/4 of the 2 years was what i was actually TRYING to learn. (CNT) I already knew just about everything they "taught" me, because of self education. The only thing is i needed a couple 1,000 dollar piece of paper(degree) showing that, WOW, I ACTUALLY REMEMBERED WHAT THEY PUT ON EXAMS!! Doesn't mean that I could have forget everything in that 2 year period over night. I still have to look up references in text books, i'm sure most of you do also, cause our brain CAN'T remember everything down to detail, especially extreme complicated formulas or processes. WHY DO YOU THINK HUMANS INVENTED COMPUTERS/CALCULATORS? Okay enough complaining, but i'm sure you get the point. I try to give back my knowledge(what little i still retain) to anyone whom is wanting to take time. You remember back in the old days, young people would internship with craftsmen, to learn a trait, whether it was electrician, plumping, carpentry, etc. You learned from a person already experienced, and he learned through trial and error from someone before him. But then again this ain't the good ol days and modern life sucks.

audioguru

An education teaches you how to learn. It expands your mind. It makes you smarter.
Some educated people use the specialty that they studied, others don't. The ones who don't use the specialty that they studied, learn the new profession quickly because they learned how to learn.

An uneducated labourer can hardly talk. Just swearing all the time. Doesn't know about local or world events. No common sense. Stupid.

What is the trait called plumping??? Hee, hee. Over-eating?

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Uncle $crooge

Torben

Well, one thing you might learn in a university is effective communication. Like spelling, grammar, punctuation, etc. Y'know, so people don't have to guess at what you might have meant.

Also, while I do believe that it's important not to confuse scholarship with education (what is an intellectual? It's someone who has been educated beyond their intelligence) it's also important to remember that the main point of school is not passing exams. Unless, of course, you're just there for the paper you get at the end. The important thing is that you have access to people and resources you would not have access to outside of that environment. You can avail yourself of that opportunity and learn lots and pass the test, or turn up your nose at it and still pass the test, but I know who I'd trust to know their stuff after the fact.

It is absolutely possible to have a fulfilling and productive life without a degree or formal education, and in many fields self-teaching is a valid way to learn. For instance, sound engineering schools are largely a scam; you cannnot learn to have good ears, and anybody can show you what knob on the board does what. But I am NOT letting some self-taught quack operate on MY knee or my son's messed-up kidney.

All that said, I was hired out of university in the mid-90's (computer science) and have worked in the field ever since, I have quite a few software and technical writing contributions out there on the net and one published book to my name, and I could probably challenge for my degree and in fact could probably teach some courses at a university level.

I know people with degrees from good schools which aren't worth the paper they're written on. I know people with degrees who are absolutely brilliant in their fields and who rightfully earned those degrees. I also know many highly articulate, interesting tradespeople with no interest whatsoever in getting a degree, and more than a few complete boobs who would be complete boobs no matter what papers they had.

It is all down to the individual in question. Broad strokes can always be painted, but they will also miss the mark for a large percentage of the people being so painted.


Torben

Nigel Goodwin

It all depends what your degree is in, too many people now take useless degree subjects, with no hope of a job at the end of it.

Apparently the largest UK employer of University Graduates is McDonalds!.

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BeeBop

You got that right!!!

The only thing you missed is that the uneducated laborers are really insecure, and will cause as many problems as they can, for someone on the crew who does have an education.

BeeBop

Torben, given where you live, I don't understand how you can say this. It seems to me that in this country you almost need a diploma, even to wash dishes.

It also seems that no one will believe you could ever learn anything on your own, no matter how well educated you are, (unless of course that education is in a technological field.) Even then, I doubt there are many people in this country who use even ten percent of what they learned.

I totally agree with you on the value of some degrees. I have seen people who have not just received a Master's degree, without even having a good grip on the fundamentals, but also have been promoted to a teaching position because they are friendly and flattering to the person doing the hiring.

On the other hand, like yourself, I know people who don't have a degree, and show more intelligence than some of the 'educated' people I have met.