markland556

Well i usally just get PCB's made from those useal chinese places.
But i would like to start saving money.
I was wondering what options i have.
Iv seen the laser printer iron on ones.
UV light ones...

I only have InkJet printers in my home, they are nice, but i dont know if they are up to the task.

Id really like to make some sort of setup to where i can just make a design in Eagle, print it at home and get along making it.
Id really like to stay away from as many chemicals as possible.

Also how easy is it to do double sided PCB's?? Becasue i think i need to do some re-designing in Eagle.

andy257

Hi Markland,

There are hundreds of post on these forums requesting the same infromation as you. Do a search and you will find plenty of info to keep you going.

Just as a starter there are various way you can go about making your own pcb. Depending on the quality your after there are some real cheap ways. I myself use the expose / develop / etch routine. This kind is expensive to setup initially (light box / tank / chemicals etc) but produces outstanding quality.

Hope it helps

Andy

jbeng

And it's relatively easy to make double-sided boards. Notice I said relatively easy.
JB

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markland556

Alright ill look around a little more, i did a search for "homemade pcb" and only got 3 results.
Are there specific names for these different type's of manufacuring?

HarveyH42

Try different keywords... 'Etching', 'PCB', 'Boards'...

markland556

well iv looked through alot of threads and done some googling. It seems to me that the best way is the photoresistant way, but they say you need a darkroom and the cost of chemicals is only worth it if you make alot of boards.

In my situation im only going to be making simple boards every couple weeks. There is maby 1-3 IC's and some resistors, capacitors, pin headers. Nothing special. What kind of quality do i need to make something like this work right?

Tarsil

For that u can use a PnP foil or even pages from certain magasines. U'l find info about that on diferent threads. For realy simple PCB's u can use a permanent marker

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mramos1

I have in a pinch printed on the inkjet and took my photo paper to a printing shop and had them make copies and used that and it worked fine.

I would buy a laser printer. They're not that much. I keep one just for boards. I use Eagle as well. I have not had to do double sided board yet.

I do the boards in Eagle with two layers on, so I see where I have problems (red and blue, if see purple I fix it). I rip-up and fix it or worse case put in a 0 ohm resistor to jumper over a trace. My Grandfather tought me all this, he does PCB layout. And sometime I am lucky enough to just mail him the schematic (but he likes ORCAD better than Eagle).

I have only ferric chloride around. Nothing more. It is a simple and fast process outside of the layout on Eagle and the drilling of the holes (for me).

jbeng

You don't need a darkroom. I don't even use "safelights". When I first started making photo PCB's (15+ years ago), I thought all that stuff was necessary, too. I then realized that the photoresist is nowhere near as sensitive as photo film. If it is, then why does it take so long to expose with UV lamps 4 inches from the board? As an experiment, I tried it without all that darkroom stuff (in the lab under normal fluorescent lighting) and got excellent results. Haven't worried about it since. The chemicals are not that expensive either, all you really need is developer and etchant. I used to spray my own boards with sensitizer, but that is expensive. (At the time, I didn't care, my company bought the supplies.) Now, I just buy my board stock pre-sensitized.
Before I used the photo method, I mounted a fine point permanent marker in a flatbed pen plotter. I would draw the traces right onto bare copper, then into the etchant. Worked really well, but the size of the pen tip limits the minimum trace width and isolation.
JB

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HarveyH42

It's really a matter of preference, as you might have noticed in the threads. The toner transfer is pretty good, and probably simpler and cheaper to get into. Either, I think the quality either way has some to do with the equipment you start out with.

I've never photo-etched, mostly because of the mixing and storage of chemicals, exposure times and such. I'm kind of sloppy that way, and wouldn't expect good, consistant results.

Toner-transfer doesn't require much precision, so its better suited to me. I got a new HP 1020 laserjet for $129 (free shipping), but wanted a fast printer for other stuff anyway. I got a 4" laminator surplus for $25. Pint of etchent goes for around $5. You'll want a drill press for the holes. I've got an old universal jobber for 3/8 drills, don't know the cost mine was free with the house I bought... Steel drill bits dull very quick, just a few boards, and carbide bits are fragile (definately need the drill press). So, expect to spend about $200 to start, or eventually. Lot of ways around spending money, but it's well worth spending the money. You can use a public access photocopy machine instead of a laser printer, but will limit the print quality and maybe paper selection. I use the special toner transfer paper ($1-1.5 per sheet), but you get clean transfers, quick release, little rework (if any).
You can use a clothes iron, kitchen stove, or other heat sources instead of a laminator. But you need to learn by trial and error (apparently many) about heat, pressure, and duration. Seldom do boards over 4 inches, so the laminator is great for most of my projects, usually do two passes. In a race, I think I could be ready to etch before the Iron/Photo paper guys get they're irons hot enough...

I've gone from printing a design to trying to figure out what I screwed up in under 2 hours, and I'm usually not focused on one task at time...

Oznog

You don't really need a darkroom, but you do need to understand light intensity.
For example, a 100W bulb on the ceiling won't expose anything in a reasonable period of time. A 60W desk lamp 12" away might, it's hard to say. It is far far stronger!

Sunlight, on the other hand, is capable of exposing it, even if it's not a direct sunbeam. The eye adjusts and the room may seem about as bright as being lit by a 100W bulb at night, but it may actually be 100 times more light.

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Hero999

You're forgetting that sun light also contains a heck of a lot more UVA than an incansesant which hardly produces any and that cloud doesn't always affect the UV index.

You can buy fairly cheap black light bulbs that are a drop-in replacement for a normal 60W bulb. One of these in a normal desk lamp will do the job perfectly and use the compact fluorescent variety not the crappy short-lived low-output incandesent type.

I don't bother with any fancy Press'n Peel or photo paper, plain and ordinary magazine paper works well for me. I've heard some stories about it not working with some printers , although I imagine that can be fixed by gluing it to normal A4 paper.

For me the method I choose depends on the quality of board I'm doing. For boards containling only through-hole componants I just the magazine paper method but for higher quality boards with lots of SMT componants I use the photo etch board.

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markland556

well i dont plan on doing any SMT components any time soon.. So im still undecided on what i should do. I kinda like the whole press an peel stuff, seems easy enough.
I was looking at this thing, i order from these guys alot.
http://www.circuitspecialists.com/prod.itml/icOid/4231

HarveyH42

"I don't bother with any fancy Press'n Peel or photo paper, plain and ordinary magazine paper works well for me."

Hero, you throw this in everytime this topic comes up, but you never specify which grade magazine paper you use. There are atleast three typical grades, some magazines use them all in a single issue. Guess we can rule out the high gloss photo pages for obvious reason (stuck together most likely ), that leaves the regular gloss and the recycled news-print pages.

mramos1

Cheap picture paper works well.. I have only done on magazine paper one. Was bad, cheap thin paper, the laser crunched it up.

I think you're wrong, I will not go back and search the threads. BUT, I think it was an adult magazine mentioned way back in a thread.

Maybe not.. I still want to try the magazine paper. It makes since. But the lexmark photo paper and other papers at 100 sheets for $12.99.. They work, you just have to learm to let them soak long enough before you peel the paper off.