I know I know. There are already many posts about PCB Layout software. I am aware. However, it seems I've tried a TON of them and they are suck in different but nearly equal ways.

I had been using pcbexpress or expresspcb I can't remember which for awhile, but they are expensive for what you get. Fine for prototype (fast) but too expensive when looking at soldermask and larger runs.

I need to get my designs into a gerber format before they can even be quoted anywhere else, such is my problem:

Eagle - EVERYONE seems to recommend this but its got to have the weakest interface known to man. Who ever decided that a "select closest" approach was a good idea has obviously never used a cad program (EVER). Selecting a component and pressing Delete really should delete the part. Not so with Eagle. All this along with Redraw errors and scrolling problems. I can not use it, it will drive me crazy!

I tried new-wave-concpet's program which had REALLY poor support for SMD parts. ORCAD which was bloated and confusing. Heard horrible things about Protel, and PCAD looks pretty confusing.

I don't really care about the price since the company is buying it, but I need something that is easy to use, powerful enough to auto route and everything else is just extra.

Any suggestions ?

 

Hiya ISO,
Eh mate I use sprint layout 4 software by abacom, i've got eagle on my computer but I'll be stuffed if I can work it out. I find the sprint software easy to use and some of the features really make it easy to produce a pcb in no time flat. It isn't expensive to buy and from a pcb software learners point of view this software is near perfect.

Check it out

Cheers Bryan

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I have used Ultiboard from Electronics Workbench. The schematic capture was terrible but I think they cleaned that up. No matter which program you choose there is a learning curve and the availability of support help is what I would look for. I found Eagle to be good in that regard, I send an email and the next day get an answer. I sent a lot of emails before I got proficient.

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bryan1: Thanks, I'll give that a try.

Russlk: I think I could eventually figure it out, but I'de never like it. It doesn't conform to a "Standard Windows Interface" at all. Its interface is seriously one of the worst I've ever used. "Click Closest" is SUCH a mistake. Not even an option to turn that off. I saw Ultiboard, I'll go download an eval for it, see how that one goes.

Today I installed and tried 7 PCB programs, I disliked every single one for thier horrible interfaces (AND I AM A CAD GUY!) except for Easy-PC. That one is pretty good. Don't know it the program is worth anything or not, but at least I can use it.

 

 

Thanks inaPICle! Thats almost perfect!

I laughed my ass off when I read this on the DIPTrace website:

"I have downloaded about all of the evaluation versions of schematic editior/pcb layout software that I could find. I narrowed down my choice to Eagle until I found DipTrace. I am amazed at how easy DipTrace is to use. It is miles above the other programs I have tried including Eagle."


The only thing I don't like so far is its a little confusing doing manual tracing. I might be missing somthing but for the life of my I cant figure out how to delete half a trace. Every time I try its all or nothing,

DIPTrace is looking like the winner so far,

Thanks

 

DIPTrace is good, there are a few things I don't really like tho.

Can't edit all planes at once, need to explicitly select a plane to edit. Can't make a via where ever you want, program decides for you. Needs a little work with the manual controls (via, traces), like deleting a section of a net isn't allowed (dumb).

One the other hand DIPTrace is only version 1.22 so they'l probably change somthings around.

I'm going to look at 'sprint layout 4' and Ultiboard.

 

I agree diptrace isn't perfect, but it was the best so far.

Thanks for the Ultiboard mention. I'm going to try that too.

inaPICle

 

I use Sprint Layout, I also found eagle felt more like a DOS program than a windows one.

Sprint Layout is cheap, and useable. The autorouter is very primitive (one track at a time) but is adequate for small PCB designs where you want to tweak every little square inch. I really like how easy it was to learn and make your own component library.

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And with a tweak :wink:

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Don't be too quick to bash it. I know it's got annoying quirks. Actually I don't see the interface as a major issue. I hate their library management problems which causes problems for basically everybody.

I have no idea what you're talking about in deleting a part, unless you're talking about deleting it in the library. Deleting from the lib is one of those lib management problems.

It does have an effective autorouter and lots of library parts. I've found it a very practical and effective tool for even large designs.

Its autorouter is lousy at creating single sided designs. I sure wish it would know how to make jumpers automatically, make them all horizontal, vertical, not on top of parts or each other, as few as possible, and as short as possible. That would rock.

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I thought what I'd do was I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes.

 

I just found out about this free open source program tonight, haven't even really had a chance to test it out. Too busy researching what parts I need for my project... but anyways, the screenshots look pretty. :lol:

http://www.lis.inpg.fr/realise_au_lis/kicad/
There is not a slick install file, just a big zip that has the Windows binaries in it. Looks like it is updated very often since the version I got was timestamped for today.
download directory: http://iut-tice.ujf-grenoble.fr/cao/
just get that large "kicad-2006-... .zip" file

 

Geez, 73 MB download. What in the world is taking up so much space? The parts library?

Dan East

 

Actually, the parts library that is included is kinda small. :lol:

What is taking up space? The help directory is ~30MB (in 5 different languages). The zip includes executables for linux systems as well as windows(in both unicode and non-unicode, whatever that means). And the 3d rendering program(wings3d) is about 10mb.

Basically, it's this entire directory structure in one zip:
ftp://iut-tice.ujf-grenoble.fr/cao/kicad
So you could pick and choose from there to reduce the download. Althought, i'm not sure exactly which files are essential and which aren't.

You're not on dial-up are you? :shock:

 

Also, I mentioned that the parts library is small, well, someone wrote a script to convert Eagle library to this program, and the redulting files are here:
http://www.openhardware.ru/people/dm...ed_from_eagle/