There are only seven people on this forumn. I reckon Mathematical Theory is the a fundamental tool to using electronics. I think more people should become interested in Pure Mathematics. I find it fascinating. Does anyone agree?

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Invention is 1% inspiration, 99% perspiration.

 

What does this mean? 7 Posts?
Math is fun, just not too many people ask questions about it, thats all
Any of the engineers on this site has had plenty of math exposure in their lifetime

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Mike
My website: www.ElectroBird.net

 

What I meant to say was that there were only seven replys to my thread. What I'me saying is ;a carpenter cannot do a good job without an understanding of his tools. Maths is an ectronic engineers tool, like every engineers. So, a thread on theory should be about things like Fourir Transforms.

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Invention is 1% inspiration, 99% perspiration.

 

Well, the thing is you have two types of Electronics enthusiasts. Those who enjoy mathematics, and those who don't. I used to be the latter, but have been converted to the former!

I have to say that even with a basic mathematical background you can still do an awful lot with electronics. Advanced Mathematics is not really a necessity. In fact, a more practical approach can often lead to better real world results! Unfortunately, theory is far from everything. An Engineer or hobbyist with good practical skills in Electronics is very well equipped in my opinion. You can be good at Electronics without an advanced mathematical background, but you'll never be good at Electronics without a good practical background!

That said, I do enjoy mathematics. It is the universal language of Science, and you can learn a lot from studying it.
I think that Engineers get a better appreciation of maths than the actual mathematicians do, because an Engineer is able to relate his results to real life situations, where as a mathematician simply arrives at a satisfactory answer. Don't get me wrong, I have the greatest of respect for mathematicians - they are extremely clever people, but I think that maths from an Engineering perspective is much more rewarding

Brian

 

I agree. One can get bogged down in theory. I have designed an AC driven LCR circuit, and am eagerly trying to understand second order differential equations and Fourier transforms. Electronics theory is physics and maths, and this forum should follow those lines.

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Invention is 1% inspiration, 99% perspiration.

 

Most of us who know it learned it in college, and have tried hard to forget it It's the understanding of it that's important, not so much doing actual integrals and remembering math rules.

I got an A in my honors differential equations course in college, but that was ten years ago and I hardly use it as an electronics design engineer.

 

Hello q51,


Well, i gave an electronics engineering course on another site (well the beginning
anyway) and what happened is that initially there were like 50 people who were
following closely who were interested in electronics circuit analysis but once we got
to simultaneous equations every single person quit. We didnt even get past that
linear algebra so that tells me that many people just dont want to be bothered with
math...it's only a very few who do.

 

Yes, the vast majority of it isn't ever needed in real life, it's just something they make you learn at college.

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In the end, there's no substitute for building the darn thing and turning it on. How useful all that advanced math is depends how tolerant (of lack thereof) the circuit is to tolerances.

To me, "understanding the math tools" is different than "knowing how to use the math tools" because the former implies that an understanding of the theoretical foundation and proofs behind it...which is not all that useful in many cases.

I'd argue that it's far more important to know how to use the tools you have than to understand how they work (from the point of view of getting something done). You can make very nice table without knowing how the physics of how the electric motor in all your power tools operates. You may not be able to come up with new tools though, but that's what mathematicians are for.

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Tanaka Sensei (avatar) says: Please spell it "ridiculous" correctly! Not "rediculous". ^^

 

I don't agree, if you understand how the tools work (and if your mind is sharp ), then you can think through possible sequences and determine what would be the best way to solve your problem. If you just know how to use the tools but don't know why, you'll only go so far and then be stuck. Then you'll have to go all the way back again and try and understand it. Say for example, Ohms Law. If I didn't understand the relationships between voltage, current, and resistance, I could be in big trouble. What If I wanted to power an LED and I didn't know about current? I could say well R=E/I and I'll give this LED 1A of current (because I don't understand what is too much) and the LED will self destruct. Or, what If I would like to give someone a little zap of current and I give them 2A of current? Since, I didn't understand that could kill the other person!

 

That clearly falls under knowing how to use the tool, not understanding how it works (aka where it comes from). That would involve all the conduction and valence band stuff. Similar to knowing how to use matrix reduction rules, but not knowing where they come from.

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Tanaka Sensei (avatar) says: Please spell it "ridiculous" correctly! Not "rediculous". ^^

 

It's fine to look back over notes to remind yourself about something you've learned and forgotten and then be able to understand and use the knowledge. But employers often don't see it that way. If your asked to derive a simple equation which is easy to understand but you forget how, it will look very bad and the employer will more likely choose the one who could do it in the interview room.

 

very true, but alot of the upper year math courses are actually useful. I think the only math course I more useless than useful was first year algebra. Sure matrix manipulation and solving for unknowns using matrix is ok, but towards middle/end of the course, we began learning abstract math, strictly theoretically like 4th dimension math. Thats useless.

The other math courses ive taken were more directed towards electrical stuff, laplace, fourier, etc..

but ya..overall, you prob will only use a fraction of everything you learn unless you are a researcher and get heavy into math and stuff. Everything else you dont need eigenvalues and other useless things like that in electrical.

 

Hello again,


I know that math is a useful tool because it can be used to study things before
you actually do them. You can run various scenarios to see what the results
would be if you did it one way over another way. These studies can tell us
a ton of information that we would not have without the math.
It also helps to double check someone else's work instead of following it
blindly. If they made a mistake and you dont check over the work with the math,
you end up making the same mistake.
It also helps understand the underlying reasoning behind some of the formulas
and ways of doing things.

Second to the maths are the circuit simulators. A decent simulator can take the
place of much math, until you run into something that is hard to simulate and
then you are back to the math :-)

 

I was always good at the math side (20+ years ago), I used to get high marks 95%+ in tests and help the slower students with their formulas etc. These days I couldn't remember a root elsie to save my life. If I need to work something out I just google it.

Seriously, the role of the engineer has changed so much. A hundred years ago our job was to do massive handworked equations using printed log tables. In the '80's you just punched the math stuff into a scientific calculator and the engineer's job became more about design and visualisation and the menial math stuff was done by a handheld device.

Now in the 2000's the datasheet rules. Now you don't even need the calculator, the datasheet has charts and specs and design notes showing schematics with warnings about limits etc. Even the bulk of the reseach and design has now been relegated to menial lesser beings (ie the datasheet researchers).

And for the 2010's it's looking like this;
1. Go to Uni
2. Learn about forums
3. Ask forums to "plz supply schematics and code for my final year project!"
4. I (just) pass test... Now I is a real enjineer