The schematic:
Well not really singing plants as such, but i'll explain that in a second.
Firstly im new here so big helloand to give you a little info about me... I confess I know very little about electronics, i learnt a little as a kid and curently trying to catch up reading as much as i can at the moment but could use a little help (ok well maybe alot).
Im curently working on a university project, i study sound arts and design and i am looking to create a sound instalation/performance piece based on responses from plants.
This is inspired by some work done in the 60's and 70's that shows when a plant is stimulated the resistance varies and i will be using this to trigger and alter parameters of a sound. I will be using an arduino board to input voltage changes into max/msp where i will convert that data into sounds. I have that all sorted but i need help with the electronics.
Now here is where i am struggling. I need to make a device that will measure resitance variations in the plant tissue. When a plant is stimulated (in this case physically) the resistance varies (much like in a person).
Now i will not be marked on the electronics as my marks are on the concept and how is sounds so i am free to get assitance with the electronics, how ever any help i do recieve i am more than happy to credit the individuals should anyone wish.
I was looking at making a weatstone brige and an amp, but i eventually stumbled upon this article which seems to be alot of the work done for me!
The article will give you a better overview of what im talking about.
If you could have a look at the second link. It is the schematic for the system.
http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/Popular..._1971_pg63.jpg
http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/Popular..._1971_pg64.jpg
http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/Popular..._1971_pg65.jpg
http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/Popular..._1971_pg66.jpg
http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/Popular..._1971_pg67.jpg
http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/Popular..._1971_pg68.jpg
http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/Popular..._1971_pg93.jpg
Looking at the schematic here where i am struggling
1. The input output polarizer. How does this work? I dont really understand how it would be wired. Its confusing me quite a bit, why have the tracks comming from the electrodes (bp 1 and bp2) been crosed over each other?
2. How viable is this in terms of part avalibility? I think the ic might be a little out of date but shouldnt be to hard to find a sutible replacement. Any advice as a whole?
3. I need the output to be in a voltage range of bewteen 0-5volts. A range of 0-1 would suffice though. Where would be the best place on the schematic for me to take the output to be sent into the arduino? At the dc recoreder or the audio output? Im asuming the dc recorder but im not sure what voltage range it will be outputing.
Im sure there will be plenty more questions to come but thanks for reading this far. If you need any clarification on anything just ask and any help, advice or ideas would be much apreciated
Steve
Last edited by steve_j83; 17th March 2009 at 10:45 PM.
The schematic:
First of all, well done in explaining exactly what it is you are trying to do, clearly explaining the problem and obviously making a start on the work yourself.
UNLIKE many of the idle third world students (and some first world) who come here expecting the complete work done for them. Oh and they need it by next week!
[rant_mode: OFF
Quite simple, it is just a double pole double throw switch with a simple wiring scheme (very simple when you see it done) to swap the polarity of the input signal from the plant to make the meter move in the correct direction.
The IC in the circuit, the 741 is still readily available, however, before the pack descends and tells you it is old and inferior, I will just say that something like a TL071 would be a better choice.
First of all, what is an arduino? (On edit, OK I just googled it!)
The output voltage will depend on the input from the plant, so, dificult to predict.
I think that you need a DC voltage, so the recorder output is probably what you need to use.
JimB
Last edited by JimB; 17th March 2009 at 11:43 PM.
Experience is directly proportional to the value of the equipment ruined.
Hey Jim, thanks for the good info, i still have a few months to finish this but hoping to get a prototype working in the next month.
Ok well you lost me there but i will have a look around at the terminology and some examples and see if i can get my head around itIf you say its simple i should be fine.
Great will look into it, need to get my head around IC's will check back on that when i understand a little more.
Ok cheers guess im best to just build the thing and see how we go.
Two more questions though,
can i remove the audio amp if im not going to use it? If so which components are free to go.
And the arudino offer's single pin analouge inputs and a ground pin, so from the dc out do i run the positive current into an analouge input pin and the negative into the ground pin? im a bit lost here.
Thanks again
Try this as a modified circuit.
On further thought, you could probably leave out the meter.
Also the 0.01uF capacitor.
JimB
Last edited by JimB; 18th March 2009 at 10:12 AM. Reason: Error in circuit
Experience is directly proportional to the value of the equipment ruined.
Thanks jim, thats really good of you, am really chuffed. You have saved me alot of hair pulling, i'll try get this up and running over the next couple of weeks (end of term atm so i am a little snowed under now) and i will let you know how i go. Also do u have a last name Jim, as i would like to credit you for the modifed design ?
I am really a bit sceptical to this whole idea. Plant physiology really does not seem to lead one to believe that plants could respond to sound. They just don't have a mechanism for doing so. Most of a plant biological makeup is chemical reaction. The plant stoma open and they draw in CO2, at same time the stoma draw water from the root through the xylem tissue. All Chemistry based. Plants have no CNS, so I think the whole idea of plants reacting to sound is somewhat silly.
Measuring resistance change would be nothing more than coincidental. Ie. plant is uptaking water with nutrient in it. Certain nutrients would affect the electrolyte levels of the plant thus creating an illusiion that the plant was undergoing some sort of change. Just silly I think.
Last edited by Mikebits; 18th March 2009 at 11:00 AM.
acquiring knowledge is like doing a jig saw puzzle, many of the bits on their own dont make sense, but they are all needed to give a complete picture........... "Eric Gibbs"
www.geoepicenter.com
Hey Mike. I think you might have misread things a little. It’s not that the plants will be responding to sound, although there is a lot of scientific research suggesting that cretin music does stimulate plant growth. That is a whole different issue that is debatable and something I don’t understand myself.
However it is well documented that plants the resistance in the plant tissue does alter when a plant is physically stimulated. The truth is we understand very little about plants, for example the venues fly trap. It has no central nervous system (as you mentioned) but are more than capable of registering when it is touched and physically responding.
What I will be doing is recording resistance changes that occur when a plant is touched. Each plant will be set a base line and then once physically stimulated the variations in the data collected will control (in real time) some specifically designed electronic instruments.
Essentially I will be using the plants as a sort of controller to create abstract music. I understand your skepticism though. I guess we will just have to wait and see. I will be more than happy to post the results either way.
I had a look at the switch, i think i understand it. Is this correct?
(hardly pro but I only had paint on hand)
Last edited by steve_j83; 18th March 2009 at 07:15 PM.
Hmm now im thinking i might be wrong.. another go.
Last edited by steve_j83; 18th March 2009 at 07:23 PM.
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