Electronic Circuits and Projects Forum



Singing plants, advice please.

12 Last »
  1. #1
    steve_j83 steve_j83 is offline

    Singing plants, advice please.

    Well not really singing plants as such, but i'll explain that in a second.

    Firstly im new here so big hello and to give you a little info about me... I confess I know very little about electronics, i learnt a little as a kid and curently trying to catch up reading as much as i can at the moment but could use a little help (ok well maybe alot).

    Im curently working on a university project, i study sound arts and design and i am looking to create a sound instalation/performance piece based on responses from plants.

    This is inspired by some work done in the 60's and 70's that shows when a plant is stimulated the resistance varies and i will be using this to trigger and alter parameters of a sound. I will be using an arduino board to input voltage changes into max/msp where i will convert that data into sounds. I have that all sorted but i need help with the electronics.

    Now here is where i am struggling. I need to make a device that will measure resitance variations in the plant tissue. When a plant is stimulated (in this case physically) the resistance varies (much like in a person).

    Now i will not be marked on the electronics as my marks are on the concept and how is sounds so i am free to get assitance with the electronics, how ever any help i do recieve i am more than happy to credit the individuals should anyone wish.

    I was looking at making a weatstone brige and an amp, but i eventually stumbled upon this article which seems to be alot of the work done for me!
    The article will give you a better overview of what im talking about.

    If you could have a look at the second link. It is the schematic for the system.

    http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/Popular..._1971_pg63.jpg
    http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/Popular..._1971_pg64.jpg
    http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/Popular..._1971_pg65.jpg
    http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/Popular..._1971_pg66.jpg
    http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/Popular..._1971_pg67.jpg
    http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/Popular..._1971_pg68.jpg
    http://www.swtpc.com/mholley/Popular..._1971_pg93.jpg


    Looking at the schematic here where i am struggling

    1. The input output polarizer. How does this work? I dont really understand how it would be wired. Its confusing me quite a bit, why have the tracks comming from the electrodes (bp 1 and bp2) been crosed over each other?

    2. How viable is this in terms of part avalibility? I think the ic might be a little out of date but shouldnt be to hard to find a sutible replacement. Any advice as a whole?

    3. I need the output to be in a voltage range of bewteen 0-5volts. A range of 0-1 would suffice though. Where would be the best place on the schematic for me to take the output to be sent into the arduino? At the dc recoreder or the audio output? Im asuming the dc recorder but im not sure what voltage range it will be outputing.

    Im sure there will be plenty more questions to come but thanks for reading this far. If you need any clarification on anything just ask and any help, advice or ideas would be much apreciated

    Steve
    Last edited by steve_j83; 17th March 2009 at 10:45 PM.

  2. #2
    flat5 flat5 is offline
    The schematic:
    Attached Images
    0

  3. #3
    JimB JimB is offline
    First of all, well done in explaining exactly what it is you are trying to do, clearly explaining the problem and obviously making a start on the work yourself.
    UNLIKE many of the idle third world students (and some first world) who come here expecting the complete work done for them. Oh and they need it by next week!
    [rant_mode: OFF

    Quote Originally Posted by steve_j83 View Post
    Looking at the schematic here where i am struggling

    1. The input output polarizer. How does this work? I dont really understand how it would be wired. Its confusing me quite a bit, why have the tracks comming from the electrodes (bp 1 and bp2) been crosed over each other?
    Quite simple, it is just a double pole double throw switch with a simple wiring scheme (very simple when you see it done) to swap the polarity of the input signal from the plant to make the meter move in the correct direction.

    Quote Originally Posted by steve_j83 View Post
    2. How viable is this in terms of part avalibility? I think the ic might be a little out of date but shouldnt be to hard to find a sutible replacement. Any advice as a whole?
    The IC in the circuit, the 741 is still readily available, however, before the pack descends and tells you it is old and inferior, I will just say that something like a TL071 would be a better choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by steve_j83 View Post
    3. I need the output to be in a voltage range of bewteen 0-5volts. A range of 0-1 would suffice though. Where would be the best place on the schematic for me to take the output to be sent into the arduino? At the dc recoreder or the audio output? Im asuming the dc recorder but im not sure what voltage range it will be outputing.
    First of all, what is an arduino? (On edit, OK I just googled it!)
    The output voltage will depend on the input from the plant, so, dificult to predict.
    I think that you need a DC voltage, so the recorder output is probably what you need to use.

    JimB
    0
    Last edited by JimB; 17th March 2009 at 11:43 PM.
    Experience is directly proportional to the value of the equipment ruined.

  4. #4
    steve_j83 steve_j83 is offline
    Hey Jim, thanks for the good info, i still have a few months to finish this but hoping to get a prototype working in the next month.

    Quote Originally Posted by JimB View Post
    Quite simple, it is just a double pole double throw switch with a simple wiring scheme (very simple when you see it done) to swap the polarity of the input signal from the plant to make the meter move in the correct direction.JimB
    Ok well you lost me there but i will have a look around at the terminology and some examples and see if i can get my head around it If you say its simple i should be fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by JimB View Post
    I will just say that something like a TL071 would be a better choice.
    Great will look into it, need to get my head around IC's will check back on that when i understand a little more.

    Quote Originally Posted by JimB View Post
    The output voltage will depend on the input from the plant, so, dificult to predict. I think that you need a DC voltage, so the recorder output is probably what you need to use.
    Ok cheers guess im best to just build the thing and see how we go.

    Two more questions though,

    can i remove the audio amp if im not going to use it? If so which components are free to go.

    And the arudino offer's single pin analouge inputs and a ground pin, so from the dc out do i run the positive current into an analouge input pin and the negative into the ground pin? im a bit lost here.

    Thanks again
    0

  5. #5
    JimB JimB is offline
    Try this as a modified circuit.

    On further thought, you could probably leave out the meter.
    Also the 0.01uF capacitor.

    JimB
    Attached Images
    0
    Last edited by JimB; 18th March 2009 at 10:12 AM. Reason: Error in circuit
    Experience is directly proportional to the value of the equipment ruined.

  6. #6
    steve_j83 steve_j83 is offline
    Thanks jim, thats really good of you, am really chuffed. You have saved me alot of hair pulling, i'll try get this up and running over the next couple of weeks (end of term atm so i am a little snowed under now) and i will let you know how i go. Also do u have a last name Jim, as i would like to credit you for the modifed design ?
    0

  7. #7
    Mikebits Mikebits is offline
    I am really a bit sceptical to this whole idea. Plant physiology really does not seem to lead one to believe that plants could respond to sound. They just don't have a mechanism for doing so. Most of a plant biological makeup is chemical reaction. The plant stoma open and they draw in CO2, at same time the stoma draw water from the root through the xylem tissue. All Chemistry based. Plants have no CNS, so I think the whole idea of plants reacting to sound is somewhat silly.

    Measuring resistance change would be nothing more than coincidental. Ie. plant is uptaking water with nutrient in it. Certain nutrients would affect the electrolyte levels of the plant thus creating an illusiion that the plant was undergoing some sort of change. Just silly I think.
    0
    Last edited by Mikebits; 18th March 2009 at 11:00 AM.
    acquiring knowledge is like doing a jig saw puzzle, many of the bits on their own dont make sense, but they are all needed to give a complete picture........... "Eric Gibbs"
    www.geoepicenter.com

  8. #8
    steve_j83 steve_j83 is offline
    Hey Mike. I think you might have misread things a little. It’s not that the plants will be responding to sound, although there is a lot of scientific research suggesting that cretin music does stimulate plant growth. That is a whole different issue that is debatable and something I don’t understand myself.

    However it is well documented that plants the resistance in the plant tissue does alter when a plant is physically stimulated. The truth is we understand very little about plants, for example the venues fly trap. It has no central nervous system (as you mentioned) but are more than capable of registering when it is touched and physically responding.

    What I will be doing is recording resistance changes that occur when a plant is touched. Each plant will be set a base line and then once physically stimulated the variations in the data collected will control (in real time) some specifically designed electronic instruments.

    Essentially I will be using the plants as a sort of controller to create abstract music. I understand your skepticism though. I guess we will just have to wait and see. I will be more than happy to post the results either way.
    0

  9. #9
    steve_j83 steve_j83 is offline
    I had a look at the switch, i think i understand it. Is this correct?

    (hardly pro but I only had paint on hand)
    Attached Images
    0
    Last edited by steve_j83; 18th March 2009 at 07:15 PM.

  10. #10
    steve_j83 steve_j83 is offline
    Hmm now im thinking i might be wrong.. another go.
    Attached Images
    0
    Last edited by steve_j83; 18th March 2009 at 07:23 PM.

12 Last »
Tags
Similar Threads
Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
pleas :circuit of singing fish سلطعون Microcontrollers 14 31st October 2008, 06:20 PM
Solar light station for plants Gideonstk Electronic Projects Design/Ideas/Reviews 5 4th September 2008, 01:59 AM
Singing the PNP Blues Atomsk102 General Electronics Chat 32 23rd August 2008, 04:38 AM
Singing Card neo2478 Electronic Projects Design/Ideas/Reviews 7 21st June 2007, 09:24 PM
Very, very new to this... need advice testhead1313 Electronic Projects Design/Ideas/Reviews 8 21st January 2006, 10:36 PM
Electronic Circuits  |  Learning Electronics

Join our community with over 100,000 Members! It's free, easy and when you're logged in you have many more features! Click to register.
Page Time: 0.05650 seconds      Memory: 7,393 KB      Queries: 17      Templates: 0