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Old 6th September 2006, 02:34 PM   #1
Default MOSFETS do not switch off properly

Hello,
I've been trying this for a while (about some weeks).
I built a mosfet driver to drive an ignition coil.

The first driver I've built was very simple, and the mosfet didn't turn off fast enough to generate the "kick effect/auto-inductance/back emf" (I don't know how do you call that ) so high voltage was not generated.

I could see that the MOST was not switching off, because I was using an 20A ammeter between the drain and the coil.

I tried with 2 mosfets, IRF3205 and IRF740.

Fail #1:
Sparks were not generated.
Mosfet didn't turn off.
MOSFETS do not switch off properly-f1.gif

Fail #2:
Some weak sparks were generated.
Mosfet didn't properly turn off.
(I could improve the performance by decreasing R2 value (10k) to 300R)
MOSFETS do not switch off properly-f2.gif

Fail #3:
Strong sparks were generated.
After a few seconds of working, the mosfet starts to conduct alone. So I have to turn off the supply to "reset" the circuit.
MOSFETS do not switch off properly-f3.gif

Any ideas?
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Old 6th September 2006, 05:41 PM   #2
Default

What voltage are you using for the signal?

Use a push pull trigger signal source like a 555 timer, and at least 10V for the signal and reduce the resistor in series with the MOSFET's gate to 10R or better still, get rid of it and use a small ferrite bead.
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Old 6th September 2006, 09:59 PM   #3
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hero999
What voltage are you using for the signal?

Use a push pull trigger signal source like a 555 timer, and at least 10V for the signal and reduce the resistor in series with the MOSFET's gate to 10R or better still, get rid of it and use a small ferrite bead.
Hello,
I'm using a 555 timer as signal source.
The signal is about 11V.

You mean, use a ferrite bead as a resistor? Or to make a "little transformer"?
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Old 7th September 2006, 01:53 AM   #4
Default

Put MBR1645 or similar in the primary of the transformer (+ at + supply and - in the drain)

Industry Number : MBR1645
R-SCHOTTKY, 45VOLT, 16AMP, TO-220

Last edited by muki55; 7th September 2006 at 02:15 AM.
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Old 7th September 2006, 02:35 AM   #5
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by muki55
Put MBR1645 or similar in the primary of the transformer (+ at + supply and - in the drain)

Industry Number : MBR1645
R-SCHOTTKY, 45VOLT, 16AMP, TO-220
Nice idea.

To protect the MOST against back emf, isn't it?

But I still don't think that it's the cause of my problems.
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Old 7th September 2006, 03:04 AM   #6
Default

Just try it!!!!!!!!!

and here's the working one but not mosfet output it's (2N3055) output.
Attached Thumbnails
MOSFETS do not switch off properly-zapper2.jpg  
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Old 7th September 2006, 03:08 AM   #7
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by muki55
Just try it!!!!!!!!!

and here's the working one but not mosfet output it's (2N3055) output.
Hello,
I simply gave up using 2N3055, I had to parallel some of them, and they did not heat equally (I was using 0.5 ohm ballast emitter resistors).
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Old 7th September 2006, 03:27 AM   #8
Default

Maybe this one will help. If not: Try tesla circuit. (Just joking) Here's my last one trying to help You. I'm Tryingggggggggggg. hu! hu! hu! hu! hu!

C1- 1uf/200v
Attached Thumbnails
MOSFETS do not switch off properly-zapper1.jpg  

Last edited by muki55; 7th September 2006 at 03:47 AM.
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Old 7th September 2006, 05:23 AM   #9
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by muki55
Maybe this one will help. If not: Try tesla circuit. (Just joking) Here's my last one trying to help You. I'm Tryingggggggggggg. hu! hu! hu! hu! hu!

C1- 1uf/200v
Hello,
Thanks for the helps, but I prefer to design the circuit myself. To take someone else job is not funny.
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Old 7th September 2006, 07:46 AM   #10
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayato
Hello,
I've been trying this for a while (about some weeks).
I built a mosfet driver to drive an ignition coil.

Fail #3:
Strong sparks were generated.
After a few seconds of working, the mosfet starts to conduct alone. So I have to turn off the supply to "reset" the circuit.
Attachment 9439

Any ideas?
I believe your magnetic core is reaching saturation because of asymmetric pulsing (only positive going pulses). And that's why it seems the switching device is always on.

To fix this, you must apply symmetric postive and negative going pulses to 'reset' the magnetic core of the transformer. Many times, you can also use a free wheeling diode to provide the reset. Another method would be to lower the duty cycle so that the transformer has sufficient time to dissipate its magnetic energy. When the switch opens, the transformer's primary will automatically generate a reverse voltage, but if not enough time is allocated before the next pulse comes in, it cannot fully discharge, and will eventually saturate - which you have witnessed first hand.
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Old 7th September 2006, 12:46 PM   #11
Default

I've worked with some mofsets that needed -ve volatge to force them to switch OFF. if you have a pulses signal (0 - 5v) you can easily transform it into (10 , -10v) using a cheap 741 opamp. this is what i did, i was using the mosfet to drive a highly inductive load, and it wouldn't switch off, and that was the solution.
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Old 7th September 2006, 04:18 PM   #12
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Analog
I believe your magnetic core is reaching saturation because of asymmetric pulsing (only positive going pulses). And that's why it seems the switching device is always on.

To fix this, you must apply symmetric postive and negative going pulses to 'reset' the magnetic core of the transformer. Many times, you can also use a free wheeling diode to provide the reset. Another method would be to lower the duty cycle so that the transformer has sufficient time to dissipate its magnetic energy. When the switch opens, the transformer's primary will automatically generate a reverse voltage, but if not enough time is allocated before the next pulse comes in, it cannot fully discharge, and will eventually saturate - which you have witnessed first hand.
Hello,
I don't think that the core saturation is the problem, because it works fine with power transistors like 2SC4106.

But I'll try to add the diode.

Another thing that is driving me crazy is that I've paralleled 2 MOSFETS and they are heating unequally, when I say unequally is:
One is cold another is very very hot to the touch.

MOSFETS do not switch off properly-f4.gif
(CORRECTED THE SCHEMACTIC)

Another thing I've noted is that one of the MOSFETS is heating w/o signal applied.

I don't know what it is, because it's the second time it happens, I don't think I'm so unlucky to get 2 pairs of mosfets (each pair in a different radioshack) with 1 deffective mosfet on each pair.

Last edited by Hayato; 7th September 2006 at 05:13 PM.
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Old 7th September 2006, 04:23 PM   #13
Default

Has anyone pointed out that collector and emitter need to be swapped on the BC327? Having said that, if you are generating the pulses with a 555, it will probably provide higher drive current than you will get from push-pull emitter followers, and you will get 1.4V more gate drive.
And what is the purpose of the zener?
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Old 7th September 2006, 04:32 PM   #14
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron H
Has anyone pointed out that collector and emitter need to be swapped on the BC327? Having said that, if you are generating the pulses with a 555, it will probably provide higher drive current than you will get from push-pull emitter followers, and you will get 1.4V more gate drive.
And what is the purpose of the zener?
Hello,
What do you mean by swaped? Is this (for example):
BC337: EBC
BC327: CBE

I didn't do that because the datasheet, from fairchild, says that BC327 and 337 have the same leads configuration. (I thought that was strange, but it's the datasheet).

The purpose of the zener is to protect the gate from any voltage higher than 12V.
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Old 7th September 2006, 04:45 PM   #15
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayato
Hello,
What do you mean by swaped? Is this (for example):
No, on the circuit! - the two emitters need to connect together!.
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