You might have a point, except:

In the United States, fifty to 100 years ago nearly every residence was heated by the burning of coal. Trains plied back and forth on steam provided by the burning of coal. The coal mines of West Virginia, Virginia and Kentucky worked three shifts a day, seven days to provide coal for the iron and steel industry. Many cities were so inundated daily with coal soot that it was impractical for a man to wear a white shirt to work.

Today, the only major consumption of coal is by the electrical power plants, and those are closely monitored and filtered to reduce the release of pollutants. The air-borne particles of yesterday and today are being cleansed by the natural rain cycles.

The auto and truck industries have taken great pains to reduce the pollution of their exhaust.

And more CO2 is produced by natural sources than any man-made activity. There may be some global warming... consensus is one-half degree F. in the past 40 years... but I submit it isn't man's doing entirely, as those who would profit greatly by a hysterical response would have you believe.

Two bright copper pennies worth.

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Soot and other pollutants are not the same as CO2. The automobile industry has not been able to reduce the CO2 emmissions. The only way to reduce it is to burn less fuel. Some automobiles are high effencicy, but the number of automobiles on the road just keep increasing, as does the average number of miles being driven. Coal and natural power plants also contribute. No matter how many pollutants are cleaned from the talipipes and smoke stacks, CO2 continues to be released. This is responsible for the majority of CO2 that is being released. Natural CO2 is way less.

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The sources of C02 and the carbon cycle on earth isn't well understood yet.
Just did some quick googling for data.
Global Warming: A closer look at the numbers

Not sure where they get their data and I'm not gonna do the research on it, but it says the baseline PPM is 288m. Natural additions are 68m, and manmade additions are 11m. So I'm not entirly sure where you're deriving your conclusions from Brownout, but it's not from real world data.

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Monte Hieb worked as a chief engineer for the West Virginia Office of Miner’s Safety. He is not a climatologist by any stretch of the imagination. He hasn't published any peer reviewed papers on climatology at all. His "mining" connections make him a suspect source at best.

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Inside every little problem, is a big problem trying to get out.

 

You don't know where the data comes from. You can't verify it's correct or not. But you're sure that I'm not using "real world" data, because this junk form unknown sources says so.

OH, I forgot, if it's on google, it MUST be true. Unless that is, if you disagree, then it must be false.

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You don't need a quadraphonic Blaupunkt -- you need a curve
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Those numbers look a bit suspect to me,
Natural additions? How did nature know an industrial revolution had happened.

Mike.

 

We should only believe data if it comes from unknown sources. But of course, if NASA and the Department of Energy puts up facts and data, you should ingore it completely.

NASA - The Human Factor: Understanding the Sources of Rising Carbon Dioxide

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You don't need a quadraphonic Blaupunkt -- you need a curve
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Pommie, natural additions mean increase in CO2 levels that are attributed to natural sources.

And technically both articles are suspect. Because they didn't provide any reference to where they got their information from. Ask two different scientists you'll get two different answers, I'm not sure where the 'scientists agree' or what data sets to believe. A quick quote from a Nasa site that the article you posted referenced for further reading was.

Anyone that outright believes without a lot of skepticism that scientists really have a handle on this either way right now is seriously mistaken.

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And? Do you reject all science unless they can measure every quantity without tolerences? There is a huge body of work in this field, including cores taken from ice sheets, fossels, radio active methods, correlation with historical data, etc. We blow off scientific work on the Earth's health at our owp peril! None of the deniers has credible evidence to the contrary. They only have attempts to deny and discrdit.

BTW, you can crap-can the Hieb article as soon as he makes water vapor a green house gas. LOL! Credibility-zero!

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You don't need a quadraphonic Blaupunkt -- you need a curve
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I love the climate change controversy.

My stance has always been that:
1) I have no reason to doubt or question that human activity has some measure of influence on our environment, even climate.
2) It makes sense to continue to study data, collect new data, refine our understanding of the overall "big picture" (ie every variable that influences the climate), and implement culture changes (without severe economic consequences) that improve our relationship with the environment.
3) I am absolutely convinced that this is more of a political issue than scientific, by orders of magnitude. If you have ever spent more than a minute reading the comment section of "RealClimate.Org" and the associated articles, you very much get the sense that the science follows the assumptions of the scientists, rather the assumptions of the scientists following the science. Every last Tom, Richard, and Harry cheerleading the campaign is an admitted left leaning liberal, athiest/agnostic and they spend more time eschewing opposing ideaologies than discussing the science.

I am not a conspiracy theorist, but I am fully aware of the political culture of academia and I would be naive to think it has no influence upon controversial science such as this. 50 years ago the title "climateologist" was a science without much to do, let alone funding to do it with. It was a small fraternity of a handfull of scientists, trained by the same handful of scientists from the generation before. Today it has become a heavily funded vogue science with plenty of people competing for the same money.

The above was my sarcastic but realistic impression of it all. I've read all the facts and data and ambiguities in great detail, for many years. I am not convinced that anthropogenic GW isn't real, therfore I think it deserves our study and attention. But until the politics are removed from the equation I'll have a skeptical eye.

One phrase that makes my stomach hurt: "The Science Is Settled"

When I heard and read the multitudes of science-politicos screaming this little phrase, My notch and bandpass filters were switched on.

 

Global warming is a complete farse, nothing that we can do about it. It is evidently clear that the earth goes through its cycles and such in changing temperatures. We had the ice age, then it got warmer and so on.

 

I think ke5frf post stands on it's own. I agree with him 100% but I do have words to add for myself =)

Okay, lets start after my last post =P
Absolutely not, but EVERY article I have read concerning global warming has failed utterly to mention the fact that there is variability, the quantities mentioned are statistically derived from narrow data sources and make broad reaching statements, virtually no two of which agree.

That huge body of work contains all of the sketchy left and right wingers as well as true scientists that go for raw data an unbiased calculations.

No one here is a denier, to deny global warming is occurring is idiotic. No one is blowing off scientific work, but the scientific credibility goes out the window when fearmongers warn we need to immediately stop burning all fossil fuels reduce the worlds human population by a few billion and go back to the stone age.

The only thing I am attempting to deny and discredit is one thing and one thing only. The human race as a whole, including all scientists on this planet, including every theory and every variation of that theory concerning the true cause and effect relationship of man and natures effect on the carbon cycle on this planet is at BEST just a guess. The science itself has many years to go.

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Good science always includes a discussion about variabilities. You find a good example in the articles I linked referenced for further reading, and then turn right around and state that every article fails to mention variability. Even bolded and underlined the word "every." How do you post a direct quote that mentions variability, then deny any such thing exists? You don't know if you're coming or going on this subject. Only the literature that attempts to discredit the science utterly fails to discuss the vaiability of their own data.

In fact, the science has done a good job of showing the variables. But as all good science does, it looks at the evidence and comes to the very best conclusion based on the evidence. Yes, there is alot of study left to do; however, that does not discredit all of the science done to date. It's not political; it's not left or right; it's not about a bunch of atheists or achedemia using a false issue to acquire government funds. It's not fearmongering. It's a warning about how we are affecting the climate by burning fossel fuels. It's a warning we should head, becuase we should leave something better to our children than we are on track for.

This discussion is only going around in circles. I have yet to see any evidence that the science is wrong. I only see one wrong, unsubstianted rant after another about the science of climate change, and the scientists who have worked hard to inform the public of the dangers of ignoring our impact on the world we live in. Science serves mankind. Go ahead and rant all you want. If I chose not to continue this rediculous roundabout discussion, it's not because you've done anything to change my mind. It's simply because the discussion has become a waste of my time.

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You don't need a quadraphonic Blaupunkt -- you need a curve
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Just thought I would post this..

BBC NEWS | UK | Magazine | The methane makers

 

heres the dilemma I see with this whole global warming situation.
It depends on where you look and what you factor toward 'green house gas' production sources.
With a quick and unbiased on line search you will find that human influenced green house gas production numbers supposedly have risen by around 200% in the last 50 years or so.
But depending on what information source you chose that relates to any where from 10% of the worlds natural and man made combined numbers to about 90% of the worlds natural and man made combined numbers.

So what does that mean?
By my take that meant that in 1959 we produced between 5% and 85% of the worlds green house gases and in 2009 we produced about 10% to 90% of the worlds total green house gases.

I dont know about you but a tolerance of 5% to 90% seems pretty wide and inconclusive to me.

Would you like your tax man to use a 5% to 90% applied variable on your income?
He might only charge you 5% but then again he might charge you 90% too. It just depends on what reference source he felt like using that day.

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