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dknguyen · 9th July 2009, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triode

I had the same problem when I stopped believing in an afterlife. The thought of ceasing to exist was very depressing, even distressing. But when you think about it, you would cease to exist either way. Are you the same person you were when you were 16? If you lived to be 300 would you be who you are now? It's not so negative that in 300 years someone new will be seeing the world, instead of a different person who used to be who you are now. A new person who expeiriences wonder at the things you have gotten used to can live instead, and they can read of your ideas.

That reminds me of the hypothetical situtation a psychologist once proposed:

What would you prefer?
-Someone clone you and your memories and torture your clone
-Or someone wipe your memory and torture you?

mramos1 · 9th July 2009, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcmtech

I was an atheist but now I am not.
I have and still do on occasion in fits of frustration and question raise my head up and look to the sky and still scream out with every atom of my very existence 'WHAT THE F*** IS WRONG WITH YOU?' JUST BRING IT ON.

Then I feel better.

I was created in this way and I respect others that will question me in such a way and therefor if God dont like it he should move his finger and either bless me or curse me. But I am of the understanding we are all created in some way in the image of God so he too must also respect and understand my feelings at the time.

I have been blessed with uncommon skills and knowledge but yet cursed to dwell with everyone else on this planet who continually gets in my way and prevents me from doing greater things with that skill and knowledge I have been blessed with.

It all seems like a sick joke more often than not. And some days it makes atheism seem like a more realistic approach to life but it just cant explain the things I have seen that made me change my mind in the first place.

My 20 cents (2 cents adjusted for tax and clergy fees)

I was never an atheist, but what you wrote did put a smile back on my face.

I feel I walk in the same shoes. A couple days off helps a little

Little bit of Mikebits stuff and I will be all good.

breadboardguy · 28th July 2009, 02:59 PM

The human is at a such conscious and intelligence level that he idealize a god and he puts himself as a creation of him. I rather think that WE are divine, we are the one on a a billion of billion of possibilities on such numberous planets. We create such amazing things that cant be found anywhere exept on earth. If the earth was just a little different in geography, the monkey would'nt had started to walk on 2 legs and to devellop tools and intellectual talents. Would it be just because we are on two legs that we have a soul? When we think of it, all terra inhabitants are the same from the same ancestor, we all come from a liquid resting in some hot water near a volcano, we all have 2 eyes, a brain and 4 legs.We can even transfer pork organs to man. Exept some small evolution modification and dna caracteristics, the human is the same then a dog.

If we look at what we are, we are a very big microcontroller that does not work with boolean logic and ALU, but neurones that react to some small electric current signals.

What would be, is to stop asking question of how is the world, because we can only perceive it but a small window, and we cant realize why space is so big because it was never mandatory for survival, and maybe never ever some sort of intelligence is supposed to understand evrything.

People dont get that we very probably are the most intelligent race in the whole galaxy at the moment

Man always want to know why, but why? I think that if we want to get why we perceive, why we feel and the concept of being, we absolutly have to understand the brain, how all the nerves are connected and in what sort of logic to know evrything, the answer to search is not how it works, but why and how we perceive it that way.

Understanding why do we understand would be pretty cool...

doubleM · 29th July 2009, 06:44 AM

im in a similar dilemma. i was raised in church, taught the bible, my whole family is protestant. yes i still believe in God, but things have happened to me in the past few years that make me question certain things.

for example, its hard for me to swallow the idea of an afterlife for eternity...in heaven or in hell. its hard to swallow the fact that God would allow someone, who never knew of him or never had a choice, to be sent to hell. i just cant take thinking, well this guy died....he didnt live like we think he should have, so now hes in hell. or youll hear people preach "turn or burn!youre goin to hell. ".... nobody wants to hear that. things like this make you question what you were taught your whole life.

anyway, i think there is more to the universe than what we know. im tired of hearing people say "if you dont believe like we believe youre absurd." dogmatic, narrowminded, ignorant bs. from atheists, evolutionists, scientists, christians and theologians alike. the hypocrisy of humankind is unbelievable. everyone believes a little different.
the accepted theory of our origin today by modern scientists is evolution. im not saying thats right or wrong...im not a scientist. one day it may be proven completely. or one day it may be proven wrong and something else could take its place. but even if it is proven, does that totally mean God doesnt exist?
i personally find it easier to believe in a higher power who created the universe and set laws in order, than to believe everthing, all of this, came by an accident, by chance. its too complex to be by chance.
i do not believe order cannot come from disorder.
but i am all for science, technology, exploration and finding out where we come from....or even if we are alone in the universe. no more ignorance and fear. and perhaps mankind is evolving in the fact that we better ourselves and change. thats the only evolution that should matter.

breadboardguy · 29th July 2009, 01:22 PM

Quote:

i personally find it easier to believe in a higher power who created the universe and set laws in order, than to believe everthing, all of this, came by an accident, by chance. its too complex to be by chance.

I remember a great thinker that was talking about luck and unprobable things that happens. (If it happened like that) the right molecule assembly at the right time is unprobable but its not luck if it happens, because it has to happen on such huge time and possibilities. Its chance that where are born in this galaxy, but it was a fatality that it was to happen somewhere with that much trial and error. We won the lottery after thousands of try in some sort.

I am not against the principle of god by respect for others choices, but for me, if god exists, he should had told me. He didn't so i cant be shure to believe in anubis or toth right now.

Pommie · 29th July 2009, 01:50 PM

I can't see how anyone can believe in a god. It is just nonsense. How can you accept that this world can't exist without a maker but ignore the obvious flaw - who made the maker!

FFS, if he did exist then he would command more power over people and there would not be the atrocities in the world that happen everyday.

If, heaven and hell did exist then I will be in the hell department and will happily exist with all the good people that didn't believe. I'll enjoy a chat with Einstein. You guys can have the IRA murderers and suicide bombers that said their hail marie's.

So, to close, it is just superstitious nonsense. See the light and stop wasting precious time on this planet worshiping your favourite invisible friend.

I can't believe I tried to rationalise this garbage.

Mike.

breadboardguy · 29th July 2009, 02:12 PM

I totally agree, you said the same thing then me but a little bit more ...brutally. Thanks to had said it for me. Its just nonsense.
(Does anyone knows how much god's where invented by humans right know? In the thousands?.)

gabeNC · 29th July 2009, 06:12 PM

I totally disagree. As someone who was raised in the church, left and then came back I find it interesting to talk to people so "sure" that there is no god.

dknguyen · 29th July 2009, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabeNC

I totally disagree. As someone who was raised in the church, left and then came back I find it interesting to talk to people so "sure" that there is no god.

Is it any different than people who are so sure that there is a god?

tcmtech · 29th July 2009, 08:59 PM

Conservation of energy theory says everything goes some place. That what ever it was that made you alive and conscious should need to be accounted for in order to balance the live or dead equation.

God and Heaven, Alternate reality or parallel dimension. Your choice.
I chose to believe because even as someone one with a scientific and rational logical way of viewing things I have to know there is more since I and no one else has all of the answers to the what, where, and why the universe works.

I can be skeptical of someones claims about anything but I cannot fully dismiss them without absolute sureness that what they claim is evidence for or against something is confirmable and right.

We a humans lay down laws of physics, chemistry and science but yet after a while those undeniable laws we made aways seem to end up with loop holes and odd little quirks of the system that dont fit the supposed law rules and thus make it go from undeniable law of nature to relative theory of scientific stuff.

For me God and heaven fit into the relative theory of scientific stuff. I Cant fully prove or disprove because the undeniable evidence leans both ways and ,egos be dammed, I along with everyone else is not that bright either!

Wonka · 29th July 2009, 09:09 PM

I think it is quite fun to write code when tiddley. It seems great at the time but the following morning, urg!

tcmtech · 29th July 2009, 09:49 PM

Quote:

I think it is quite fun to write code when tiddley.

Umm.. So.. Hmm...

What else you cooken up in that chocolate factory of yours?

dknguyen · 29th July 2009, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wonka

I think it is quite fun to write code when tiddley. It seems great at the time but the following morning, urg!

That also applies to ideas and women.

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28th July 2009, 02:59 PM	#18
breadboardguy	The human is at a such conscious and intelligence level that he idealize a god and he puts himself as a creation of him. I rather think that WE are divine, we are the one on a a billion of billion of possibilities on such numberous planets. We create such amazing things that cant be found anywhere exept on earth. If the earth was just a little different in geography, the monkey would'nt had started to walk on 2 legs and to devellop tools and intellectual talents. Would it be just because we are on two legs that we have a soul? When we think of it, all terra inhabitants are the same from the same ancestor, we all come from a liquid resting in some hot water near a volcano, we all have 2 eyes, a brain and 4 legs.We can even transfer pork organs to man. Exept some small evolution modification and dna caracteristics, the human is the same then a dog. If we look at what we are, we are a very big microcontroller that does not work with boolean logic and ALU, but neurones that react to some small electric current signals. What would be, is to stop asking question of how is the world, because we can only perceive it but a small window, and we cant realize why space is so big because it was never mandatory for survival, and maybe never ever some sort of intelligence is supposed to understand evrything. People dont get that we very probably are the most intelligent race in the whole galaxy at the moment Man always want to know why, but why? I think that if we want to get why we perceive, why we feel and the concept of being, we absolutly have to understand the brain, how all the nerves are connected and in what sort of logic to know evrything, the answer to search is not how it works, but why and how we perceive it that way. Understanding why do we understand would be pretty cool... Last edited by breadboardguy; 29th July 2009 at 01:14 PM.

29th July 2009, 06:44 AM	#19
doubleM	im in a similar dilemma. i was raised in church, taught the bible, my whole family is protestant. yes i still believe in God, but things have happened to me in the past few years that make me question certain things. for example, its hard for me to swallow the idea of an afterlife for eternity...in heaven or in hell. its hard to swallow the fact that God would allow someone, who never knew of him or never had a choice, to be sent to hell. i just cant take thinking, well this guy died....he didnt live like we think he should have, so now hes in hell. or youll hear people preach "turn or burn!youre goin to hell. ".... nobody wants to hear that. things like this make you question what you were taught your whole life. anyway, i think there is more to the universe than what we know. im tired of hearing people say "if you dont believe like we believe youre absurd." dogmatic, narrowminded, ignorant bs. from atheists, evolutionists, scientists, christians and theologians alike. the hypocrisy of humankind is unbelievable. everyone believes a little different. the accepted theory of our origin today by modern scientists is evolution. im not saying thats right or wrong...im not a scientist. one day it may be proven completely. or one day it may be proven wrong and something else could take its place. but even if it is proven, does that totally mean God doesnt exist? i personally find it easier to believe in a higher power who created the universe and set laws in order, than to believe everthing, all of this, came by an accident, by chance. its too complex to be by chance. i do not believe order cannot come from disorder. but i am all for science, technology, exploration and finding out where we come from....or even if we are alone in the universe. no more ignorance and fear. and perhaps mankind is evolving in the fact that we better ourselves and change. thats the only evolution that should matter. Last edited by doubleM; 29th July 2009 at 06:50 AM.

29th July 2009, 01:50 PM	#21
Pommie	I can't see how anyone can believe in a god. It is just nonsense. How can you accept that this world can't exist without a maker but ignore the obvious flaw - who made the maker! FFS, if he did exist then he would command more power over people and there would not be the atrocities in the world that happen everyday. If, heaven and hell did exist then I will be in the hell department and will happily exist with all the good people that didn't believe. I'll enjoy a chat with Einstein. You guys can have the IRA murderers and suicide bombers that said their hail marie's. So, to close, it is just superstitious nonsense. See the light and stop wasting precious time on this planet worshiping your favourite invisible friend. I can't believe I tried to rationalise this garbage. Mike.

29th July 2009, 02:12 PM	#22
breadboardguy	I totally agree, you said the same thing then me but a little bit more ...brutally. Thanks to had said it for me. Its just nonsense. (Does anyone knows how much god's where invented by humans right know? In the thousands?.) Last edited by breadboardguy; 29th July 2009 at 03:14 PM.

29th July 2009, 06:12 PM	#23
gabeNC	I totally disagree. As someone who was raised in the church, left and then came back I find it interesting to talk to people so "sure" that there is no god.

29th July 2009, 08:59 PM	#25
tcmtech	Conservation of energy theory says everything goes some place. That what ever it was that made you alive and conscious should need to be accounted for in order to balance the live or dead equation. God and Heaven, Alternate reality or parallel dimension. Your choice. I chose to believe because even as someone one with a scientific and rational logical way of viewing things I have to know there is more since I and no one else has all of the answers to the what, where, and why the universe works. I can be skeptical of someones claims about anything but I cannot fully dismiss them without absolute sureness that what they claim is evidence for or against something is confirmable and right. We a humans lay down laws of physics, chemistry and science but yet after a while those undeniable laws we made aways seem to end up with loop holes and odd little quirks of the system that dont fit the supposed law rules and thus make it go from undeniable law of nature to relative theory of scientific stuff. For me God and heaven fit into the relative theory of scientific stuff. I Cant fully prove or disprove because the undeniable evidence leans both ways and ,egos be dammed, I along with everyone else is not that bright either! __________________ "Issue a general safety warning. Then look the other way and allow stupidity the chance to eliminate itself." -- tcmtech "Those who can, Will. Those who can't, will achieve positions of power over those who can and then promptly stop them." -- tcmtech "Your impossibility may just be my day to day routine." -- tcmtech

29th July 2009, 09:09 PM	#26
Wonka	I think it is quite fun to write code when tiddley. It seems great at the time but the following morning, urg!