ikalogic

Microsoft is a source of evil! See for yourself:

http://www.ikalogic.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=70

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Ibrahim Kamal
check my electronics and robotics page: http://www.ikalogic.com/

blueroomelectronics

What does Microsoft or Google for that matter have to do with China's restrictive media policies, blame the Chinese communist party for that? People caught hacking the firewall could face some serious time in prison. I'm happy/lucky to live in a country where you have the right to choose, I feel for those who have not or are kept in the dark like mushrooms.
The net could be a serious threat to the Chinese government, knowledge is power.
Want oppression, then watch "The Vice guide to North Korea"
http://www.vbs.tv/shows/north-korea/

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Bill
Smart Kits build Smart People
http://www.blueroomelectronics.com

Hank Fletcher

I just watched the first five episodes. When does the oppression become evident? Everything I saw in those episodes was shamefully framed in the commentator's personal bias and uninformed prejudice.

kchriste

A quote from the BBC site linked on ikalogic's site:

So in effect, these companies are helping China censor the internet.
I'm no Bill gates lover, but I always thought Melinda was kinda hot.

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--- The days of the digital watch are numbered. ---

Hank Fletcher

That's right. An illustrative analogy would be to compare Microsoft to McDonald's. McDonald's might go to China and say, "Hey, we'd like to open up a franchise here, and sell your people some Big Macs." China says, "Sorry, that's not consistent with the ethics and cultural ideology of our nation." So McDonald's says, "Okay, then how about we sell your nation unbranded meat product? After that, you can do with it as you see fit." China says okay, because it perceives net value, or more likely, a few corrupt officials see an opportunity to "skim a little off the top," if you will.

The real result? China gets the same crap product McDonald's usually produces, a few corrupt officials get their bit, a few capitalists get richer, and in the meantime the invisible branding runs interference on an effective dialogue between lay people of the East and West.

blueroomelectronics

Would you want to live there? Perhaps opressive might be the wrong word. What would you describe it like? No electricity, no cars, no documents from the outside, the american was not allowed to roam freely. Place looks like it's falling apart.
http://www.filination.com/blog/2006/...o-north-korea/
http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...rm=kim+jong+il

And you don't even have to vote for him.

__________________
Bill
Smart Kits build Smart People
http://www.blueroomelectronics.com

Hank Fletcher

Are you describing North Korea or Louisiana after Katrina? To be fair, the real issue here (human rights) is as much a problem in Canada as it is in Korea or the U.S. You could just as easily be describing most reservations in our country.

A great many people live very well in Canada. Millions of Canadians do not. There are very few shows on television in the U.S. and Canada that I feel have characters living a representation of a life consistent with my own economic standing. Roseanne, when it started, was pretty close, but it's taken me a long time to work up to that standard.

Hank Fletcher

Feeling ronery? Remember to ret her into your heart:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgrrQwLdME8
Seriously, no disrespect to any Asians or anyone else for that matter for whom English is a second language. I just think the "I'm So Ronery" song is a nice bit of satire, and the little kid is just as cute as all get out.

blueroomelectronics

Does this sound like a free country? It's doesn't remind me of anyplace near here. Canada is a great place to live IMO, excellent education & healthcare. Perhaps it's not perfect but where in the world is? It's got to be better than this...
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/nation...oreaweb26.html

__________________
Bill
Smart Kits build Smart People
http://www.blueroomelectronics.com

blueroomelectronics

Yea I like the cockroach at the end, and the little spaceship too.

__________________
Bill
Smart Kits build Smart People
http://www.blueroomelectronics.com

Hank Fletcher

I'm not made of stone, but I'm not going to allow myself to be manipulated by romanticized accounts, either, you know? Anything beyond what I can deduce for myself as being credible evidence will always have a question hanging over it: is this propaganda? And that goes for stories or evidence coming from both sides.

Obviously given the nature of the current situation, extracting untampered evidence of life in North Korea is very difficult, and it's regrettable that there will most likely be unheard victims as a result. The only solution, as I see it, is to stop looking at the situation as being a matter of us versus them. Propaganda (or even real evidence that is not presented with due sensitivity) that serves to further demonize each "side," and thus in effect being the only thing delineating such "sides" is, to my mind, counter-productive. As such, I tend to be skeptical of the message and intent of investigative documentaries, and I will reserve and protect my opportunities to be critical of such to the farthest extent as it is within my means to do so.

jpanhalt

I see your point and that is a very thin line to maintain. The problem is to maintain an acceptable balance of the ethical benefits and risks.

Unless that is done, the process of rationalization to condone those actions is a very slippery slope. I think the actions of Microsoft, Yahoo, and Google toward censorship are clearly on that slope. They not only allowed censorship, but developed the technology necessary to do it. I am much more bothered by their active participation in it than I would be by their passive acceptance.

For sake of argument, consider at one extreme, a dictatorship that wants to make WMD. Is it OK for American or Canadian companies to participate in that activity, so long as it was conducted entirely within the dictatorship's country?

Or, for perhaps a less emotionally charged example, if a country allows bribes and payoffs as a matter course while doing business, is it OK for American companies to participate in those activities while abroad? American courts have answered that question. It is not OK.

The crux of the question about censorship seems to be whether it is legal or illegal to do in the home country of the corporation involved. It does not seem to be illegal to do by a corporation, despite the market dominance that corporation may hold. Perhaps it is not illegal here, because our countries worry about what would happen at home, if it were made illegal, like bribes.

That is what is so scary. To what extent is the information we receive censored, monitored, reported, or slanted to further those companies' goals? John

ikalogic

well, the responses to the message unfortunately confirm my pessimism and loss of faith in those companies.

what I also can't understand is that a country like USA sends soldiers to Iraq and Afghanistan to fight 'so called' oppression and dictatorship, but don't make a single administrative move to stop such unethical activity.....

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Ibrahim Kamal
check my electronics and robotics page: http://www.ikalogic.com/

jpanhalt

The word is hypocrisy. It is really about money, oil, revenge, and getting elected.

A lot of Americans don't support the current actions, as the last election showed and the next one will show. But, the new group of politicians will not be qualitatively different. The paths may have different names, but they will be to the same ends. If you know some place that is better, all things considered, let me know. John

BeeBop

I used to think Canada was the greatest country in the world, that is, when it was the only place I had ever lived.

It is still better than North Korea, as far as I can tell, and I've at least, set foot in D.P.R.K., but to tour it, a Westerner can only enter through China, and is under constant guard when visiting.

However, I have a difficult time understanding why Canada is called a developed nation, while South Korea is called a developing one. When looking at the way new technology is implemented in both countries, Canada appears to be full of Luddites. People in South Korea also make way more use of the internet than Canadians do.

In terms of education, I think Canada's education system is NOT keeping up with the times, and there is a far lower percentage of the population in Canada, which is educated, than there is in South Korea. Our system produces people who tend to be lazy, rather than diligent. Whenever I had to procure a document, get an internet connection, get a telephone, it took at the most, one day in Korea. In Canada, I have had to wait for more than two weeks, for the same.

While we do enjoy a fine health care system, this too, has its detractors, and if we are not vigilant, will loose this.

We are, perhaps, the most accepting country of all races, however it is getting more and more difficult to survive here. Very few born in this country will be able to afford to live here, and already are becoming servants of wealthy people moving here.

Canadians, tend to be quite apathetic, and if we keep on thinking this is a great place, rather than working harder to keep it a great place, we are going to find ourselves at the bottom, rather than near the top.