theinfamousbob

One of our SUVs just died. It won't start. Battery is good; all of the console lights and headlights function, and the fuse box looks fine (nothing blown). When we go to start it, the engine area emits a loud click and a little bit of a hum afterwards. Am I right in assuming the starter cap has gone, so the starter won't turn over?

Thanks for the help...want to try to get a repair done before it's taken to the dealership...they tend to leave stuff undone. Last time they left the alternator unhooked. That was an interesting ride.

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-Ian

Nigel Goodwin

Like you say, sounds like the starter motor - I'm presuming that the battery isn't low?, and all the thick wires are nice and tightly fitted?. At the hundreds of amps a starter motor takes, a slightly loose wire could do what you're getting.

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3v0

The lights are not a good/great indicator of battery condition.

Take a volt meter and measure the voltage at the battery. It should be 12 or 12.5 V. If it is low charge the battery and see if it starts. If it does you need to figure out why the battery went low.

If the battery checks out the next thing to look for is a bad or loose connection between the battery. starter solenoid. and the starter. For the most part these will be heavy wires.

It is not enough to see that they are not loose. Unbolt and clean them.

If none of the above fixes the problem. Then suspect the starter.

The started needs to do two things. It needs to drive the starter motor gear forward into the ring gear and it needs to spin the starter.

Your car could make similar vague noises if either function failed. Is the hum a hum or is it the starter motor spinning?

Depending on how hard the starter is to reach, and how young you feel. You could save half or more by replacing the starter yourself. Once you get it off most auto parts stores will test it for you at no charge.

The part that drives the starter gear forward into the ring gear is sometimes know as a Bendix. You may be able to buy and replace it if it is the cause rather they buying new starter.

Not rocket science but it can be greasy.

Torben

Try this, if you can find the starter motor. It should be right near the transmission. While watching it, have someone try to crank the engine. If the clicking is coming from the starter, then take a wrench or something and give the solenoid a tap. Sometimes they can get jammed or slightly misaligned (or even fetch up against their cotterpin) and all it takes is a bit of a whack to free it.

Also make sure to double-check the battery connections and ground connections. Check the starter solenoid's connections while you're there.

Might work, might not. Good luck!


Torben

[Edit: If it's a newer vehicle there's a good chance the solenoid is built right into the starter. Another possibility is corroded contact points within the starter assembly.

What make/model/year is it? You may be able to find a complete service manual for free online; I found one for my '96 Nissan truck just about three weeks ago.]

crusty

I agree with start tapping, 80% of the time it'll make em work. This usually happens when the solenoid gets old and the grease thickens up around it with dirt and age, you can take a bit of WD40 and squirt up inside of them and sometimes it loosens things up. Although with your symptom I would probably guess it would be a weak battery, if you don't have a enough juice all you're going to hear is a click and whine.

theinfamousbob

Thanks for the help. I'll check the voltage tomorrow, but my dad's not going to let me touch it...he thinks the dealership can do a better job.

It's a '98 Honda Passport (basically an Isuzu) and has a bunch of skid plates that I'd have to remove to check the starter directly. I'll see if I can see it with a flashlight tomorrow.

Again, thanks for the help and I'll let everyone know what the problem is when the prognosis comes in.

__________________
-Ian

Hank Fletcher

The problem sounds like starter motor wear, but your description of the symptoms (click and brief hum) sound identical to a problem I had with my car recently. Trouble is, I can't for sure remember what the diagnosis of that problem or the fix was! Sorry, I know that's useless to you, but it probably means that the fix was easy enough that I forgot about it (until now).

One way to kind of pinpoint the problem (and one your dad might allow!) is jump-starting the car. I don't think you mentioned whether you tried that or not, or whether or not it worked. I had to jump-start my Corolla a bit a while back, finally got fed up, but was pleased to find out how little it would cost to get a new starter (which did turn out to be the problem - I guess they have a ten year or so lifespan?). I got a great battery for my Sable, and it's always started quite well (well, not really, it's had its share of ignition problems, but steering column, not battery/starter, related).

So in sum, a sticky starter motor won't budge even if there's enough charge to run the rest of your car's electrics. If you jumpstart and it's just the battery, running the car for a bit and maybe swapping out the battery from another car to test should solve the problem. If the car jumpstarts, but after a few starts the problem returns, it's probably time to replace the starter.

Ambient

I helped out a friend just recently with a similar problem. The battery APPEARED to be fine, as his lights would work fine. But when you tried starting it (putting a heavy load on the battery), the starter would not budge, and the lights would dim significantly. I found no blown fuses, so I assumed the battery was trash and we jumped his car.

You need to measure the voltage of the battery when you try to start it. If it drops voltage more than a few volts it may be no good (but the starter could still be the issue if it is acting like a short). It can supply small currents, but not enough for the starter.

Torben

Heh. Well, I hate to say it, but chances are pretty good that he's right. They will also charge an arm and a leg just to roll it into the shop. Getting anything serious done will set you back at least one major organ at a dealership.

Dunno if you've already checked this, but you can get the Haynes manual for Isuzu Rodeo/Honda Passport '91-'02s at the Cleveland public library. They're not as complete as the official service manuals, but the Haynes (or Chilton) books are certainly a lot easier to follow.


Torben

rjvh

sounds like a brokken (worn out ) starter motor
somethimes it's just bearings that have to much leeway so that the brushes dont make the right contact on the rotor and than also not create the magnetic field
can also be the brushes themself
try to hit it with a hammer and it may work for a few time but it's recomended to change it annyway

theinfamousbob

You forgot to mention the firstborn child...but I guess that'd be me.

I figured I might try to find the service manual online for future reference, and I check the voltage drop when starting, etc. tomorrow. Maybe a jump before AAA comes to tow it.

Nice job on the library search; I'll see if I can get it sent to the local library (in Cleveland for school; about 30 miles south on breaks/when at home).

The problem's been happening off and on for the past couple weeks. Might be a stuck starter; I think the battery is <2 years old.

Thanks everyone for the replies!

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-Ian

RODALCO

Most is already mentioned, clean and tight connections of all starter cables etc.

It sounds that what rjvj sais is very likely.

First fault:
Most starter motors have 4 brushes. 2 sets of 2 in parrallel. When the brushes are worn out the brush spring banks itself against the stop and the brush is unable to make proper contact with the commutator.

The high start current will have a higher resistance path.
The starter will still run but a lot slower on the single set of brushes.
Tapping may give you a good start but the problem will reoccur very soon.

Also check for voltage drop across your accu. Total drop at accu terminals should not go below about 9 volts during starting.

Second fault:
A starter is a dc motor and should not hum like an ac motor. It probably makes more like a whirring sound. That could be the armature running free because of a sticky solenoid which can not pre engage the starter pinion into the ring gear properly.

You need to take the starter out and clean it up, replace brushes etc. or get a reconditioned one.

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Hank Fletcher

This might sound like a joke, but rjvh is absolutely right - a few good taps on the motor casing can be enough to temporarily unstick a starter in a pinch. I know that from experience with the Corolla, and there's no fear of damaging the casing at all as it's quite tough. It works!

HiTech

Take an old screwdriver and short the starter solenoid/drive terminals to turn over the motor. Expect some sparks, but the trick works. This will eliminate any starter issues and lead you elswehere for troubleshooting.

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Nigel Goodwin

Can you do that on anything remotely modern?.

We used to do it as kids on old 1950's and 1960's cars in the fields.

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