hi,

Looking back over the past few months posts regarding simulators, its obvious that some members
consider them useless, while others praise them.

I think the word 'simulator' has the same broad indefinite meaning as the word 'computer'.

IMO, when a reference is made to a 'simulator', it should be made clear what area of simulation thats
being referred to, for example, circuit, hardware, MCU or training simulators, to name just a few.

Providing the user is aware of the limitations, I consider all simulators have a key role to play in all the above applications.

Speaking from practical experience, they can save time and money in the development of a project, also the safety aspects are very important.

Air crews, Astronauts and now Doctors/Surgeons are trained on simulators.

If a novice\newbie has access to a PIC or Circuit simulator and it helps him to understanding the project,
I would say use it, providing he/she realises its just a 'tool'.

After all, computers are in effect just a simulator programmed to do different tasks.

It could be argued that when a computer runs, say a 'calculator program' its simulating a calculating machine.

I would be interested to know what other members think about 'simulators'.

Regards

__________________
Eric " Good enough is Perfect "
I will NOT answer PM's requesting technical help, please use the Forum
PIC tutorials: Nigel's www.winpicprog.co.uk/ Bill's: www.blueroomelectronics.com/

 

As a craftsman, I have accumulated an enormous number of tools in the years since my dad gave my first set of real tools. Some of them I use all the time, and some I use rarely. You use what works for you, and the key element here is choice. I would rather have a tool available and rarely used then to pretend I could do with out in all situations. If you choose not to use something that does not mean it is the right choice for everyone.

 

Some simulator programs don't know if they are coming or are going (MultiSim). Others are excellent (SwCAD III).

__________________
Uncle $crooge

 

Apples and Oranges. One needs to base each type of simulator on its own merits.

__________________
Please post questions to the forums. PM's are for personal communication.

BCHS/3v0's Tutorials
Junebug USB PIC programmer kit., USB Bit Whacker,
The 15 Minute Printed Circuit Board! (+drill time)

 

Or use Proteus

Don't think there’s better out there for its all round adaptability, but its a lot of $$

__________________
digital-diy.com - Hobby microcontroller projects and tutorials. Assembly, PICBasic and C examples.

 

Circuit simulation - is only as good as the amount of modelling work you put into it. The actual physics & algorithms behind spice modelling are rock solid in my opinion. So one cannot blame the simulator for not computing the right answers.

In my experience:

* Simulation has saved me time & money by uncovering goofy/dumb mistakes that would be costly in hardware.

* Simulation is better than nothing when some problems are too difficult to analyze OR build in real hardware - like some transmission line problems.

* Simulation has given me garbage answers that I don't believe - invariably the result of my lack of correct / adequate modelling.

* Simulation has lined up perfectly with real-world hardware performance including troubleshooting of design bugs. Here though, lots of work has to be put into the modelling.

* Simulation is great for what-if scenarios that could damage hardware in real life.

* Good simulators don't have to be expensive and some expensive ones are too difficult / time consuming to use. It pays to download demo's & try before you buy!

* Simulation is good for documentation. Even if you dont simulate, schematics & notes can be nicely detailed for sharing & record keeping.

 

Can't beat LTspice =) Completly free.

__________________

 

True, but no support for programmable devices like PIC's/AVR's

__________________
digital-diy.com - Hobby microcontroller projects and tutorials. Assembly, PICBasic and C examples.

 

Unfortunately simulators are becoming a necessity due to the fact thet many components are becoming avaiable in miniscule surface mount format only, so it is becoming impossible to lash up a quick prototype on strip-board using leaded or DIL components.

The worst problem with some of them is that they are tied in with PCB artwork packages and expect the circuit diagram to be used to go on and create a board layout. This means you have to specify components in more detail than you really want to.

I usually find I just want to throw some components down to make a basic building block to see how it performs and not have to worry about what size, voltage and tolerance my capacitor is going to be.

And why do many simulators treat LEDs the same as normal diodes when it comes to their forward voltage ie around 0.7V?

 

Because they don't know if they are coming or if they are going.
They don't have a clue.

__________________
Uncle $crooge

 

here is a site -- one can download a simulator-- i tried one for PIC and i feel it is working-- a demo version ofcourse.

http://www.oshonsoft.com/pic.html

__________________
Regards,
Sarma.