Costs for your ccts expensive than Readymade ones. - Electronic Circuits Projects Diagrams Free

Gayan Soyza · 17th January 2007, 07:02 AM

Dont misunderstand me through this post.These days There are many readymade circuits available for your choises.for ex..Relay controllers with Remote controller inbuilt LCD pannel,Trainer boards,Some Programmable timers with LCD's,Security Systems...etc.can buy most of this gadgets below 20$ in my country.with a nicer high quality pcb's,housings & catalogues.If you built this stuff @ home will cost more than that price & with the effort you gave to it.but the experience you gain from it can't meassure comparing with buying a new one.

Will the whole world will be like this one day?with Readymade ones?
What you prefer building or buying?

ericgibbs · 17th January 2007, 08:31 AM

hi gayan,
my personal choice is to buy the components and build the project at home.
Like most 'projecteers' once the project is up and running its time to move on
to the next project. So quite often the components from the first project are
cannibalised and re-recycled for the new project. This is especially true if you
using the projects as a self teaching aid.

Some of the problems with 'off the shelf' modules, they are not easily recycled, 'no drawings', 'customised devices' cant be identified.
I have quite a few 'obsolete' out of date modules laying around.

We are constantly being reminded to think 'green' and save the planet.
I believe that component re-cycling is the way that hobbiests can help,
just look in your 'odds and ends' scrap boxes!.

Any other opinions would be most welcome.

Regards
EricG

HiTech · 17th January 2007, 12:10 PM

I think it depends on a number of factors:

1. you can construct a project from scratch if you are bent on the satisfaction of knowing it was 100% your time and effort.
2. if all you desire is a completed project in minimal time and purchasing a module or such, speeds things along, so be it.
3. ready made circuits or kits provide the ease of not dealing with scouring for proper components, PCB preparation, and the resulting errors that can occur in the process of it all.

I see nothing wrong if one's project requires a simple power supply or audio amp and you can buy a kit or module for under $10, saving you time, while providing a PCB that's better than breadboarding it.

evandude · 17th January 2007, 01:58 PM

If what I want to build is available commercially for a reasonable price, then I usually don't bother building my own. But, 95% of the time, the things I want to build are weird enough to not be available commercially, or are available but at inflated prices. When you're first getting started, there's a lot to be said for the "satisfaction of doing it yourself", but after you've been at it for a while, and like me, have a neverending list of projects you want to build, it's impractical to 'reinvent the wheel' and build something you could just as easily buy, when your limited free time could be better spent on unique projects you can't buy.

HarveyH42 · 17th January 2007, 02:16 PM

Well, most of my projects are custom, and not really available comercially. Some things are better bought ready made, but component wise, I save most everything, so my part costs are low. I make my own PCBs, sometimes takes me three or four boards before I get it right, but its cheap. Mostly, the major cost is my spare time, but it's worth it. I get gadget nobody can buy off the shelf, and I learn some new stuff in the process. I'm not looking to build something to sell, but who know's maybe someday...

AllVol · 17th January 2007, 02:33 PM

Although I was heavily involved in ham radio a few years back, it has only been within the past two years that I really got interested in the "whys" of electonics, especially digital.

To that end, I have immersed myself in this board, tutorials from the 'net, and buying every electronics textbook I can find in Thrift Stores, where some unbelieveable bargains can be found.

Most of my construction consists of building circuits simply to see how they work... and for me, the breadboard is ideal for that purpose. After the circuit has served its purpose, I can re-cycle the parts for another study effort. I have made a few permanent boards, but those mostly for play purposes (my young grandson loves anything with LEDs). If I found a need for a project, I would probably spring for the ready-made, and eliminate the personal involvement.

Regards,
AllVol

dknguyen · 17th January 2007, 02:55 PM

THere are a few reasons:

1. WHen you start to know too much about electronics, you quickly realize that many products are oftentimes missing things that you really want. THis is often the case for things like robotics, where the high end items are very expensive if you can even find them (way more than the cost of a PCB), and usually missing something you want.

2. We all know commercial products try and cheap out as much as possible, and in some situations we don't want this.

3. THe circuits boards we get made (from board houses) are not lower quality than the ones in products since they are both being made at the same place.

4. As far as trainer and development boards go, all the ones I have seen are seriously lackign in that they almost always miss a bunch of stuff I want so I have to make one myself. Just because something of the same name is available for sale doesn't mean it is anywhere near what you want.

What do catalogs have to do with anything?

I'm not sure about you guys, but I don't sit at home building things like available as commercial products like fire alarms or TV remotes. Usually it's something you can't get. Although, there do seem to be a moderate amount of posts from people asking how to make some commercially available products, maybe in hopes of saving money.

HarveyH42 · 17th January 2007, 06:53 PM

Like a few months ago, I wanted a fading color changing lamp. There are LEDs with the circuit built in, many comercial items available, but I wanted a very slow color change (minutes), and a very wide color range. The comercial products aren't expensive, but can't be modified, and not what I wanted. Found a low frequency triangle wave circuit, made it x3, bigger capacitors And got just what I wanted in my backyard. Never built a power supply beyond a transformer and a bridge, wallwarts work and cheap.

Hero999 · 20th January 2007, 05:44 PM

In some respects it's like choosing open source software over closed source software, if you build your own project then you can easily modify it to suit your specification.

You also often end up building a higher quality product than if you'd just bought it, you can buy a cheap and nasty radio, take it to pieces and build a decent radio from the parts.

Dr.EM · 20th January 2007, 10:35 PM

I will often make projects on breadboard to see how well they work, if at all; but sometimes I will construct a proper unit from that design. I quite often do that even when I don't especially have a need for said unit. I've got a minimoog filter replica, LFO, PWM controller, sine wave generator, stereo amplifier etc all round but I rarely use them (though they are useful every now and then).

I have all the parts for my decimator effect project. Ironically I bought it as something to do, but after making the first board I found a job and have started work, so now I never feel like carrying on with it

I do plan to upgrade my soundcard at some point to one with 8 inputs. To go with this i'll need 8 mic preamps. The only feasable way I can attain this is by constructing it myself. I don't need mixing facilities as in an 8 bus mixer (mixing done on computer, mixer takes up room and costs a lot) and I wouldn't want to buy 8 individual mic preamps for cost reasons mainly. I can however build a unit with 8 mic preamps of excellent quality and I can add in a headphone amplifier I want all for a very reasonably cost. That is a good example; getting exactly what you want for the least cost (though it takes your personal time of course).

**Nigel Goodwin** · 20th January 2007, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.EM

I do plan to upgrade my soundcard at some point to one with 8 inputs. To go with this i'll need 8 mic preamps. The only feasable way I can attain this is by constructing it myself. I don't need mixing facilities as in an 8 bus mixer (mixing done on computer, mixer takes up room and costs a lot) and I wouldn't want to buy 8 individual mic preamps for cost reasons mainly. I can however build a unit with 8 mic preamps of excellent quality and I can add in a headphone amplifier I want all for a very reasonably cost. That is a good example; getting exactly what you want for the least cost (though it takes your personal time of course).

Can you get soundcards with eight inputs?.

It would seem far easier (and better quality) to have an external mixer that connects to your USB port - these are freely available at reasonable cost from many manufacturers.

Incidently, as you might be interested, my daughter has applied to a sixth form - starting next september (she took her mock GCSE's this last week). She's picked this particular school because they do the new Music Tech A Level, and the school has performing arts status. When we went for a visit, their new studio was in the process of being built

but their MIDI suite is already functional!.

Dr.EM · 20th January 2007, 11:01 PM

Sure, you can get soundcards with 100's of inputs if you needed (by combining several units such as the MOTU ones). The one i'm looking at is this:

http://www.dv247.com/invt/4600/

I know the USB mixers you mean but i'm not actually sure that they send multichannel data over the connection, rather just stereo like from a normal mixer? Either way you'd be paying extra for EQ and effects sends etc and you'd miss the DSP/processing features of that PCI based system that apparently help a lot with program speed.

I think A-level music tech is what I did. It'll be 2 years, AS level then A2 level if it is the same as the one I did. It is a fun course, the letdown for me being the big writeups expected for the A2 projects in particular (which I never really did, best to get on with those as soon as you can/simultaneously as your doing the composition). The studio is good fun. I enjoyed that part a lot more after learning the drums. If you play instruments then you'll like the studio work

. We had a good studio at our college, it gets rented out to bands too when were not using it (and the lecturers liked to use it when they could

)

**Nigel Goodwin** · 21st January 2007, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.EM

Sure, you can get soundcards with 100's of inputs if you needed (by combining several units such as the MOTU ones). The one i'm looking at is this:

http://www.dv247.com/invt/4600/

Expensive though!.

Quote:

I know the USB mixers you mean but i'm not actually sure that they send multichannel data over the connection, rather just stereo like from a normal mixer? Either way you'd be paying extra for EQ and effects sends etc and you'd miss the DSP/processing features of that PCI based system that apparently help a lot with program speed.

Doesn't seem a lot of difference in price?, with the sound card option probably been more expensive?. I'm fairly sure they transfer multi-channel data, the mixing is normally done during playback.

Quote:

If you play instruments then you'll like the studio work

She should have no problem with that, she plays bass guitar, piano, keyboards, flute, guitar, drums, and sings

She also already has an OCN qualification in sound engineering, and is a volunteer recording engineer at the studio she uses.

Interestingly, it was a good job we went to see the head of sixth form, because her choices wouldn't have been grouped so as not to clash (but they are bearing her in mind now). Her subjects at A level are going to be:

Music Tech
Maths
Further Maths
Chemistry

And apparently the school also insist you do general studies as well.

If the subjects do clash too much, she's planning doing Music Tech externally somewhere, and replacing it with English.

Dr.EM · 21st January 2007, 02:22 PM

I suppose something like this would do a similar job for that same sort of budget:

http://www.dv247.com/invt/32418/

I doubt it is as good though for just quality of sound. I'd be paying for the EQ (in particular the physical controls) and digital effects it apparently has etc. It's also physically quite large for that reason and I suspect it drains CPU power rather than taking the strain off it like the PCI card with its own processor.

What i'm after is just 8 (or however many I need) good quality mic preamps with gain control and a gain meter to directly record to 8 virtual channels on the PC. Theres a preamp design on Rod elliots site which could be adapted (I'd want a balanced output rather than unbalanced). I currently have a small mixer (Yamaha 10/2) and although decent for the price, the mic preamps arn't too great. They hiss a lot on higher gains.

She'll be popular on that course! People who play more obscure instruments (ie, not just guitar :P) and especially those who sing are always in demand for the studio work. I expect Music tech will be her favourite course she takes? I enjoyed both music tech and electronics and that is reflected in decent grades for both. I took AS ICT then AS physics though and my poor grades (E

) reflect the fact I did NOT enjoy them!

**Nigel Goodwin** · 21st January 2007, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.EM

I expect Music tech will be her favourite course she takes?

It's basically intended as a 'fun' course for her, and should be easy as well - being a pianist and able to read music is a great advantage.

Quote:

I enjoyed both music tech and electronics and that is reflected in decent grades for both.

Like I said, she took her mocks last week, she got an A in maths, and both my wife and myself said "is that all?"

We weren't joking! - A* and A*+ are her more usual results! - and she never does any revising at all!.

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17th January 2007, 07:02 AM	(permalink)
Gayan Soyza	Costs for your ccts expensive than Readymade ones. Dont misunderstand me through this post.These days There are many readymade circuits available for your choises.for ex..Relay controllers with Remote controller inbuilt LCD pannel,Trainer boards,Some Programmable timers with LCD's,Security Systems...etc.can buy most of this gadgets below 20$ in my country.with a nicer high quality pcb's,housings & catalogues.If you built this stuff @ home will cost more than that price & with the effort you gave to it.but the experience you gain from it can't meassure comparing with buying a new one. Will the whole world will be like this one day?with Readymade ones? What you prefer building or buying? __________________ Gayan My Website http://gsmicro.blogspot.com/

17th January 2007, 08:31 AM	(permalink)
ericgibbs	hi gayan, my personal choice is to buy the components and build the project at home. Like most 'projecteers' once the project is up and running its time to move on to the next project. So quite often the components from the first project are cannibalised and re-recycled for the new project. This is especially true if you using the projects as a self teaching aid. Some of the problems with 'off the shelf' modules, they are not easily recycled, 'no drawings', 'customised devices' cant be identified. I have quite a few 'obsolete' out of date modules laying around. We are constantly being reminded to think 'green' and save the planet. I believe that component re-cycling is the way that hobbiests can help, just look in your 'odds and ends' scrap boxes!. Any other opinions would be most welcome. Regards EricG

17th January 2007, 12:10 PM	(permalink)
HiTech	I think it depends on a number of factors: 1. you can construct a project from scratch if you are bent on the satisfaction of knowing it was 100% your time and effort. 2. if all you desire is a completed project in minimal time and purchasing a module or such, speeds things along, so be it. 3. ready made circuits or kits provide the ease of not dealing with scouring for proper components, PCB preparation, and the resulting errors that can occur in the process of it all. I see nothing wrong if one's project requires a simple power supply or audio amp and you can buy a kit or module for under $10, saving you time, while providing a PCB that's better than breadboarding it. __________________ Don't make me reach through this monitor to slap you a good one!

17th January 2007, 01:58 PM	(permalink)
evandude	If what I want to build is available commercially for a reasonable price, then I usually don't bother building my own. But, 95% of the time, the things I want to build are weird enough to not be available commercially, or are available but at inflated prices. When you're first getting started, there's a lot to be said for the "satisfaction of doing it yourself", but after you've been at it for a while, and like me, have a neverending list of projects you want to build, it's impractical to 'reinvent the wheel' and build something you could just as easily buy, when your limited free time could be better spent on unique projects you can't buy. __________________ EEgeek.net

17th January 2007, 02:16 PM	(permalink)
HarveyH42	Well, most of my projects are custom, and not really available comercially. Some things are better bought ready made, but component wise, I save most everything, so my part costs are low. I make my own PCBs, sometimes takes me three or four boards before I get it right, but its cheap. Mostly, the major cost is my spare time, but it's worth it. I get gadget nobody can buy off the shelf, and I learn some new stuff in the process. I'm not looking to build something to sell, but who know's maybe someday...

17th January 2007, 02:33 PM	(permalink)
AllVol	Although I was heavily involved in ham radio a few years back, it has only been within the past two years that I really got interested in the "whys" of electonics, especially digital. To that end, I have immersed myself in this board, tutorials from the 'net, and buying every electronics textbook I can find in Thrift Stores, where some unbelieveable bargains can be found. Most of my construction consists of building circuits simply to see how they work... and for me, the breadboard is ideal for that purpose. After the circuit has served its purpose, I can re-cycle the parts for another study effort. I have made a few permanent boards, but those mostly for play purposes (my young grandson loves anything with LEDs). If I found a need for a project, I would probably spring for the ready-made, and eliminate the personal involvement. Regards, AllVol __________________ All those who believe in psycho kinesis, raise my hand.

17th January 2007, 02:55 PM	(permalink)
dknguyen	THere are a few reasons: 1. WHen you start to know too much about electronics, you quickly realize that many products are oftentimes missing things that you really want. THis is often the case for things like robotics, where the high end items are very expensive if you can even find them (way more than the cost of a PCB), and usually missing something you want. 2. We all know commercial products try and cheap out as much as possible, and in some situations we don't want this. 3. THe circuits boards we get made (from board houses) are not lower quality than the ones in products since they are both being made at the same place. 4. As far as trainer and development boards go, all the ones I have seen are seriously lackign in that they almost always miss a bunch of stuff I want so I have to make one myself. Just because something of the same name is available for sale doesn't mean it is anywhere near what you want. What do catalogs have to do with anything? I'm not sure about you guys, but I don't sit at home building things like available as commercial products like fire alarms or TV remotes. Usually it's something you can't get. Although, there do seem to be a moderate amount of posts from people asking how to make some commercially available products, maybe in hopes of saving money. Last edited by dknguyen; 17th January 2007 at 03:03 PM.

17th January 2007, 06:53 PM	(permalink)
HarveyH42	Like a few months ago, I wanted a fading color changing lamp. There are LEDs with the circuit built in, many comercial items available, but I wanted a very slow color change (minutes), and a very wide color range. The comercial products aren't expensive, but can't be modified, and not what I wanted. Found a low frequency triangle wave circuit, made it x3, bigger capacitors And got just what I wanted in my backyard. Never built a power supply beyond a transformer and a bridge, wallwarts work and cheap.

20th January 2007, 05:44 PM	(permalink)
Hero999	In some respects it's like choosing open source software over closed source software, if you build your own project then you can easily modify it to suit your specification. You also often end up building a higher quality product than if you'd just bought it, you can buy a cheap and nasty radio, take it to pieces and build a decent radio from the parts. __________________ I also post at the following sites: http://www.stop-microsoft.org http://www.heated-debates.com Screen name: Aloone_Jonez

20th January 2007, 10:35 PM	(permalink)
Dr.EM	I will often make projects on breadboard to see how well they work, if at all; but sometimes I will construct a proper unit from that design. I quite often do that even when I don't especially have a need for said unit. I've got a minimoog filter replica, LFO, PWM controller, sine wave generator, stereo amplifier etc all round but I rarely use them (though they are useful every now and then). I have all the parts for my decimator effect project. Ironically I bought it as something to do, but after making the first board I found a job and have started work, so now I never feel like carrying on with it I do plan to upgrade my soundcard at some point to one with 8 inputs. To go with this i'll need 8 mic preamps. The only feasable way I can attain this is by constructing it myself. I don't need mixing facilities as in an 8 bus mixer (mixing done on computer, mixer takes up room and costs a lot) and I wouldn't want to buy 8 individual mic preamps for cost reasons mainly. I can however build a unit with 8 mic preamps of excellent quality and I can add in a headphone amplifier I want all for a very reasonably cost. That is a good example; getting exactly what you want for the least cost (though it takes your personal time of course). __________________ Angry!? I'm absolutely electrolytic! Will have to make do with myspace now I guess...

20th January 2007, 11:01 PM	(permalink)
Dr.EM	Sure, you can get soundcards with 100's of inputs if you needed (by combining several units such as the MOTU ones). The one i'm looking at is this: http://www.dv247.com/invt/4600/ I know the USB mixers you mean but i'm not actually sure that they send multichannel data over the connection, rather just stereo like from a normal mixer? Either way you'd be paying extra for EQ and effects sends etc and you'd miss the DSP/processing features of that PCI based system that apparently help a lot with program speed. I think A-level music tech is what I did. It'll be 2 years, AS level then A2 level if it is the same as the one I did. It is a fun course, the letdown for me being the big writeups expected for the A2 projects in particular (which I never really did, best to get on with those as soon as you can/simultaneously as your doing the composition). The studio is good fun. I enjoyed that part a lot more after learning the drums. If you play instruments then you'll like the studio work . We had a good studio at our college, it gets rented out to bands too when were not using it (and the lecturers liked to use it when they could ) __________________ Angry!? I'm absolutely electrolytic! Will have to make do with myspace now I guess...

21st January 2007, 02:22 PM	(permalink)
Dr.EM	I suppose something like this would do a similar job for that same sort of budget: http://www.dv247.com/invt/32418/ I doubt it is as good though for just quality of sound. I'd be paying for the EQ (in particular the physical controls) and digital effects it apparently has etc. It's also physically quite large for that reason and I suspect it drains CPU power rather than taking the strain off it like the PCI card with its own processor. What i'm after is just 8 (or however many I need) good quality mic preamps with gain control and a gain meter to directly record to 8 virtual channels on the PC. Theres a preamp design on Rod elliots site which could be adapted (I'd want a balanced output rather than unbalanced). I currently have a small mixer (Yamaha 10/2) and although decent for the price, the mic preamps arn't too great. They hiss a lot on higher gains. She'll be popular on that course! People who play more obscure instruments (ie, not just guitar :P) and especially those who sing are always in demand for the studio work. I expect Music tech will be her favourite course she takes? I enjoyed both music tech and electronics and that is reflected in decent grades for both. I took AS ICT then AS physics though and my poor grades (E ) reflect the fact I did NOT enjoy them! __________________ Angry!? I'm absolutely electrolytic! Will have to make do with myspace now I guess...