Random - Electronic Circuits Projects Diagrams Free

Dr.EM · 28th July 2005, 03:23 PM

I tried to build a circuit which would randomely flash an LED. I guess it works, at least it looks random, of course its not really. But I was thinking about the criteria for something to be truly random. For instance, this device will flash the LED only, so the LED operates in only 2 states, on or off. To be of total randomness, it needs to be able to operate in an infinite number of states (bright, dim etc). Also, the LED will always change state at least once every 2 seconds. To be random, it could be off for a billion years and on for just a second. So I was thinking, these are dimensions, ie. time. There are supposedly numerous dimensions, some say 9, some say 11, some more. So, surely, for something to be completely random, it has to perform an action which is outputted in any of these dimensions, or multiple ones. Hmm, this is hard to explain, but imagine an equation where everything is X :lol: . As an example, something may happen in a dimension or multiple dimensions, under the rules of every other dimension, yet that something is undesigned.

**Jay.slovak** · 28th July 2005, 04:04 PM

I don't get it... :lol:

Solve this: X=Infinite+1

Someone Electro · 28th July 2005, 06:38 PM

All you need is some white noise. and drive it in a PIC and you shod get random 1 or 0 and than tralsate that on the LEDs

Someone Electro · 28th July 2005, 06:41 PM

Trying to solve : X = infinite + 1
...
...
ERROR 30563. Overflow at at adress $23 (variable X)

**Jay.slovak** · 28th July 2005, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Someone Electro

Trying to solve : X = infinite + 1
...
...
ERROR 30563. Overflow at at adress $23 (variable X)

Actually this is the only correct answer :lol:

Someone Electro · 28th July 2005, 07:05 PM

Yay!!!

Etlest thats how a computer wod solve it.

On paper well:
99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999....... .....................

**Jay.slovak** · 28th July 2005, 07:07 PM

Code:

X=inifinity+1
X= {1/0} +1
X=infinity

This is to conserve the space on paper :shock:

Someone Electro · 28th July 2005, 07:12 PM

I ran out of paper

I think i got the 1000 sheet pack a few days ago

mstechca · 28th July 2005, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Someone Electro

Yay!!!

Etlest thats how a computer wod solve it.

On paper well:
99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999....... .....................

no wonder this thread is 3 pages WIDE.

Get a radio, convert the output to light pulses. That will make random flashes, because you never know what frequency is coming out of the radio at any given time. And add some noise to the station, and the whole thing will be 100% random.

Someone Electro · 28th July 2005, 07:39 PM

Unforcenetly you cant see 1000 Hz blinking

Dr.EM · 28th July 2005, 08:17 PM

What I actually did was have 2 555 oscillators, completely independant of each other, thier outputs going to a AND gate. The frequecy of one of these is varied by a triangle wave oscillator, the frequency of the other by a mixture of square and triangle waves. Its not technically random, but it looks like it is, its never the same pattern. I intentianally used cheap timing capacitors :lol:
When I put it up to audio frequency, there was a definate "noise" to it, but also some pretty obvious repeating petterns.

Someone Electro · 28th July 2005, 08:44 PM

Yea but he wants it totaly random.

You cod do realy precice 0,1ms timing for you to hit a button.It will be random for shure

Dr.EM · 29th July 2005, 10:59 AM

Yep, that would be random, but it requires human interaction. I think thats how those desicion makers work.

Someone Electro · 29th July 2005, 04:28 PM

Then train a rat to do it for you.

pop · 29th July 2005, 04:59 PM

Noise idea seems possible. You could use amplitude of the peaks to control brightness. and frequency of each peak over a certain height to control duty cycle of LED. Plus if you were to amplify the noise to feed it into a controller you get additional noise and randomness.

Wait how random is white noise anyway?

This is like trying to read RAM registers at random and trying too truly randomize the process....What ever happened to that idea? Was it random?

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28th July 2005, 03:23 PM	(permalink)
Dr.EM	Random I tried to build a circuit which would randomely flash an LED. I guess it works, at least it looks random, of course its not really. But I was thinking about the criteria for something to be truly random. For instance, this device will flash the LED only, so the LED operates in only 2 states, on or off. To be of total randomness, it needs to be able to operate in an infinite number of states (bright, dim etc). Also, the LED will always change state at least once every 2 seconds. To be random, it could be off for a billion years and on for just a second. So I was thinking, these are dimensions, ie. time. There are supposedly numerous dimensions, some say 9, some say 11, some more. So, surely, for something to be completely random, it has to perform an action which is outputted in any of these dimensions, or multiple ones. Hmm, this is hard to explain, but imagine an equation where everything is X :lol: . As an example, something may happen in a dimension or multiple dimensions, under the rules of every other dimension, yet that something is undesigned. __________________ Angry!? I'm absolutely electrolytic! Will have to make do with myspace now I guess...

28th July 2005, 04:04 PM	(permalink)
Jay.slovak	I don't get it... :lol: Solve this: X=Infinite+1 __________________ "I share, thus I am" Jay.slovak Read this! ICD2 Clone Best PIC/DsPIC Bootloader Read my Inchworm ICD2 review!

28th July 2005, 06:38 PM	(permalink)
Someone Electro	All you need is some white noise. and drive it in a PIC and you shod get random 1 or 0 and than tralsate that on the LEDs __________________ Il give you shocking experience.

28th July 2005, 06:41 PM	(permalink)
Someone Electro	Trying to solve : X = infinite + 1 ... ... ERROR 30563. Overflow at at adress $23 (variable X) __________________ Il give you shocking experience.

28th July 2005, 07:05 PM	(permalink)
Someone Electro	Yay!!! Etlest thats how a computer wod solve it. On paper well: 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999....... ..................... __________________ Il give you shocking experience.

28th July 2005, 07:07 PM	(permalink)
Jay.slovak	Code: X=inifinity+1 X= {1/0} +1 X=infinity This is to conserve the space on paper :shock: __________________ "I share, thus I am" Jay.slovak Read this! ICD2 Clone Best PIC/DsPIC Bootloader Read my Inchworm ICD2 review!

28th July 2005, 07:12 PM	(permalink)
Someone Electro	I ran out of paper I think i got the 1000 sheet pack a few days ago __________________ Il give you shocking experience.

28th July 2005, 07:39 PM	(permalink)
Someone Electro	Unforcenetly you cant see 1000 Hz blinking __________________ Il give you shocking experience.

28th July 2005, 08:17 PM	(permalink)
Dr.EM	What I actually did was have 2 555 oscillators, completely independant of each other, thier outputs going to a AND gate. The frequecy of one of these is varied by a triangle wave oscillator, the frequency of the other by a mixture of square and triangle waves. Its not technically random, but it looks like it is, its never the same pattern. I intentianally used cheap timing capacitors :lol: When I put it up to audio frequency, there was a definate "noise" to it, but also some pretty obvious repeating petterns. __________________ Angry!? I'm absolutely electrolytic! Will have to make do with myspace now I guess...

28th July 2005, 08:44 PM	(permalink)
Someone Electro	Yea but he wants it totaly random. You cod do realy precice 0,1ms timing for you to hit a button.It will be random for shure __________________ Il give you shocking experience.

29th July 2005, 10:59 AM	(permalink)
Dr.EM	Yep, that would be random, but it requires human interaction. I think thats how those desicion makers work. __________________ Angry!? I'm absolutely electrolytic! Will have to make do with myspace now I guess...

29th July 2005, 04:28 PM	(permalink)
Someone Electro	Then train a rat to do it for you. __________________ Il give you shocking experience.

29th July 2005, 04:59 PM	(permalink)
pop	Noise idea seems possible. You could use amplitude of the peaks to control brightness. and frequency of each peak over a certain height to control duty cycle of LED. Plus if you were to amplify the noise to feed it into a controller you get additional noise and randomness. Wait how random is white noise anyway? This is like trying to read RAM registers at random and trying too truly randomize the process....What ever happened to that idea? Was it random?