help Feedback winding for resonance with pll 4046 - Page 4 - Electronic Circuits Projects Diagrams Free

**Nigel Goodwin** · 22nd May 2009, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sebosfato

I'm sorry Nigel but is a question of time that circuits from Stanley meyer that i posted work even i that don't have the all background in electronics understood how it works i'm just trying to find out the best components for the application.

If you believe that then feel free, but neither Stanley Meyer (who was a convicted fraudster) or anyone else has ever managed to make his ludicrous schemes work.

sebosfato · 23rd May 2009, 06:17 AM

This is the all thing in one diagram. It have a range of 10 to 12khz. Actually the 4046 makes 10 to 100hz signal that is multiplied by the counter i guess not sure.

If you know how to come out with some values for resistors and capacitors and opamps is finished. I have to create a ramp or triangle signal that goes from vss to vcc to search the resonant frequency. We need to discover the values of R3, Cf and R4 for the filter section. Its using the 2° Phase comparator.

I think maybe the diodes on the feed back could be zeners but i'm not sure. Its possible to use a feed back like this to create 50% square waves? Or was that workings as a sine wave feed back?

**Nigel Goodwin** · 23rd May 2009, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sebosfato

I think maybe the diodes on the feed back could be zeners but i'm not sure. Its possible to use a feed back like this to create 50% square waves? Or was that workings as a sine wave feed back?

If they were zeners presumably they would be drawn as such?, but if you mean the two back to back diodes, you couldn't do that with zeners anyway (well you could, but there would be no point whatsoever).

sebosfato · 23rd May 2009, 11:56 AM

i meant that back to back, you are right there is no point also on the schematics is not indicated as zener i was just guessing what effect it would have. I was thinking about trying a Tl074 because a friend suggested me to use current feedback on the contrary to use voltage feed back and gave me this link a-c current transformer functional ... - Google Patents that show some schematics with it. I'm going to try a shoot in the dark and construct some circuits with the solder less board.

I don't know how to calculate the R3 and R4 values, R4 means that there is an off set. R3 should be greater than 500 i think. but i don't know much how it affects the lock range i just don't understand it very well i didn't found much information about it. I found a program by philips that calculate the all pll values i tried out a few but there were some questions i didn't know how to answer and i don't have windows computer here. This is the link for the program EDA Software Center Elektroda.pl

information about Phaselock techniques
http://lib.semi.ac.cn:8080/tsh/fwzn/...2/contents.pdf

Wont this schematic seem with the feed back?

sebosfato · 24th May 2009, 07:42 AM

Hello I made a test with 555 timer and 7490 counters divided by ten and it real divide the f by 10. but i read about if you put it between the 4 and 3 pin on 4046 it multiply the f is that correct?

Just found a great pll datasheet with calculations for the R3 and R4 http://www.physics.wisc.edu/grads/co...f07/ds/PLL.pdf + http://pdfdata.datasheetsite.com/web/82027/AR254.pdf

Hi cardac my name is fabio and my email is bringpowertothepeople@gmail.com

sebosfato · 24th May 2009, 08:04 PM

Oh boy i'm studying about this now is a long time and look what i found- The same schematics i'm working on The Water Fuel Cell :: View topic - Phase lock loop circuit schematic

I found also this one Stomping in Clown Shoes » WFC PLL - the Oscillation Overthruster

Anyway i'm going to finish my design and make improvements.

blueroomelectronics · 24th May 2009, 08:13 PM

Go for it Buckaroo you have an equal chance of traveling through the 8th dimension too.

Quote:

Notes on phase-lock-loop circuitry of a Meyer resonant water fuel cell Here’s the schematics. They are improving daily. Note: all POV-Ray images on this site are just for laughs and are inherently inaccurate.
Files: THESE ARE NOT DONE! DRAFT! THIS DOES NOT WORK!

Why the guy who posted it went to such trouble to layout a non functioning design is beyond me.

sebosfato · 24th May 2009, 08:54 PM

There are many factors that could influence the non functionality he is using 1 phase comparator and not 2 as i'm planning to use is a similar circuit not exactly what it really is any way i'm going to work on it and get the best ideas from it and put it to work i'm sure of that.

Sceadwian · 25th May 2009, 02:56 AM

The main factor being the design has no scientific reason to function even if every part of the circuit does exactly what you want.

sebosfato · 25th May 2009, 06:20 AM

Science is science. Electronics is electronics. And what i want is what i want. There is no reason this circuit could not work, it have being designed to work as described, and circuits of any kind are made to let us to do what we need to do to achieve a certain behavior or result. This circuit is not over unity is just simple pll with some control parameters. As soon as it is ready i'll post it here with the right values for all components for it to work as desired.

blueroomelectronics · 25th May 2009, 04:17 PM

My mistake. It's another useless water resonator.

Can you tell me what frequency water resonates at?

sebosfato · 25th May 2009, 04:29 PM

it will resonate in my case at about 5khz, there will be like 20% variance in the Resonant frequency of the circuit because bubbles and temperature and other factors, type of water ... Meyer said that water 2pp should have something like 10% thats why i decided to built this circuit to track and lock to it automatically. Is almost ready now because i worked since yesterday non stop... on this weekend will probably be ready i hope. Than the next step will be to test my theories to see if its right. or wrong. This circuit will able me to do things i couldn't do with any other circuit and so i think is probably what was missing to me than the rest is all about transformer design ...

blueroomelectronics · 25th May 2009, 04:32 PM

Har. Good luck. Bye bye now.

Sceadwian · 25th May 2009, 04:35 PM

5khz? The frequencies not high enough to do anything. Even basic over the counter jewlery cleaning machines use 15khz or higher, what're you gonna do with 5khz? I could beat that with an audio power amplifier and a sound generator.

blueroomelectronics · 25th May 2009, 04:37 PM

My next car should work when I hum at 5kHz

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23rd May 2009, 06:17 AM	#47
sebosfato	This is the all thing in one diagram. It have a range of 10 to 12khz. Actually the 4046 makes 10 to 100hz signal that is multiplied by the counter i guess not sure. If you know how to come out with some values for resistors and capacitors and opamps is finished. I have to create a ramp or triangle signal that goes from vss to vcc to search the resonant frequency. We need to discover the values of R3, Cf and R4 for the filter section. Its using the 2° Phase comparator. I think maybe the diodes on the feed back could be zeners but i'm not sure. Its possible to use a feed back like this to create 50% square waves? Or was that workings as a sine wave feed back? Attached Thumbnails

23rd May 2009, 11:56 AM	#49
sebosfato	i meant that back to back, you are right there is no point also on the schematics is not indicated as zener i was just guessing what effect it would have. I was thinking about trying a Tl074 because a friend suggested me to use current feedback on the contrary to use voltage feed back and gave me this link a-c current transformer functional ... - Google Patents that show some schematics with it. I'm going to try a shoot in the dark and construct some circuits with the solder less board. I don't know how to calculate the R3 and R4 values, R4 means that there is an off set. R3 should be greater than 500 i think. but i don't know much how it affects the lock range i just don't understand it very well i didn't found much information about it. I found a program by philips that calculate the all pll values i tried out a few but there were some questions i didn't know how to answer and i don't have windows computer here. This is the link for the program EDA Software Center Elektroda.pl information about Phaselock techniques http://lib.semi.ac.cn:8080/tsh/fwzn/...2/contents.pdf Wont this schematic seem with the feed back? Attached Thumbnails Last edited by sebosfato; 23rd May 2009 at 01:38 PM.

24th May 2009, 07:42 AM	#50
sebosfato	Hello I made a test with 555 timer and 7490 counters divided by ten and it real divide the f by 10. but i read about if you put it between the 4 and 3 pin on 4046 it multiply the f is that correct? Just found a great pll datasheet with calculations for the R3 and R4 http://www.physics.wisc.edu/grads/co...f07/ds/PLL.pdf + http://pdfdata.datasheetsite.com/web/82027/AR254.pdf Hi cardac my name is fabio and my email is bringpowertothepeople@gmail.com Last edited by sebosfato; 24th May 2009 at 08:34 AM.

24th May 2009, 08:04 PM	#51
sebosfato	Oh boy i'm studying about this now is a long time and look what i found- The same schematics i'm working on The Water Fuel Cell :: View topic - Phase lock loop circuit schematic I found also this one Stomping in Clown Shoes » WFC PLL - the Oscillation Overthruster Anyway i'm going to finish my design and make improvements.

24th May 2009, 08:54 PM	#53
sebosfato	There are many factors that could influence the non functionality he is using 1 phase comparator and not 2 as i'm planning to use is a similar circuit not exactly what it really is any way i'm going to work on it and get the best ideas from it and put it to work i'm sure of that.

25th May 2009, 02:56 AM	#54
Sceadwian	The main factor being the design has no scientific reason to function even if every part of the circuit does exactly what you want. __________________ "Because I be what I be. I would tell you what you want to know if I could, mum, but I be a cat, and no cat anywhere ever gave anyone a straight answer, har har."

25th May 2009, 06:20 AM	#55
sebosfato	Science is science. Electronics is electronics. And what i want is what i want. There is no reason this circuit could not work, it have being designed to work as described, and circuits of any kind are made to let us to do what we need to do to achieve a certain behavior or result. This circuit is not over unity is just simple pll with some control parameters. As soon as it is ready i'll post it here with the right values for all components for it to work as desired.

25th May 2009, 04:17 PM	#56
blueroomelectronics	My mistake. It's another useless water resonator. Can you tell me what frequency water resonates at? __________________ Bill Smart Kits build Smart People http://www.blueroomelectronics.com/

25th May 2009, 04:29 PM	#57
sebosfato	it will resonate in my case at about 5khz, there will be like 20% variance in the Resonant frequency of the circuit because bubbles and temperature and other factors, type of water ... Meyer said that water 2pp should have something like 10% thats why i decided to built this circuit to track and lock to it automatically. Is almost ready now because i worked since yesterday non stop... on this weekend will probably be ready i hope. Than the next step will be to test my theories to see if its right. or wrong. This circuit will able me to do things i couldn't do with any other circuit and so i think is probably what was missing to me than the rest is all about transformer design ...

25th May 2009, 04:32 PM	#58
blueroomelectronics	Har. Good luck. Bye bye now. __________________ Bill Smart Kits build Smart People http://www.blueroomelectronics.com/

25th May 2009, 04:35 PM	#59
Sceadwian	5khz? The frequencies not high enough to do anything. Even basic over the counter jewlery cleaning machines use 15khz or higher, what're you gonna do with 5khz? I could beat that with an audio power amplifier and a sound generator. __________________ "Because I be what I be. I would tell you what you want to know if I could, mum, but I be a cat, and no cat anywhere ever gave anyone a straight answer, har har."

25th May 2009, 04:37 PM	#60
blueroomelectronics	My next car should work when I hum at 5kHz __________________ Bill Smart Kits build Smart People http://www.blueroomelectronics.com/