The energy we burn from the refining of our lowest octane gasoline is WAY more than separating water molecules into its parts. How much energy goes into refining fuel? How much more energy goes into digging deeper and deeper for carbon based fuel. Carbon is the weakest link. Just goes poof and stinks like shit+sulfur. Now, to get a flammable HHO gas, you spend way less energy to get it. Our equivalent gasoline refineries if it were to be made on demand would be the ultimate waste. Sucking it, refining it, then finally filtering and burning it. Why is there so much resistance to this simple technology of making HHO?... Oh yeah it is made on demand... Or is it? We need a chem + electrical + finance/investor major...

oh yeah. Dilithium, like the dilithium crystals that was Scotty's responsibility on the Enterprise for the main power generator for the warp drive. Now that is funny. I wish I could laugh as much when I fill my little puny gas tank on my 1997 Geo Metro 5-speed and it costs 30+$ to do it. used to be closer to the low 20$. MFR's control our oil prices. America will grow out of it's dependance sooner than later. And it will be tax free

Originally Posted by karenhornby

Ordinary unmodified sparkplugs

I believe the ones used had the resistor moved from inside them so they were extremely low resistance, and I believe the use of DC was to increase the energy, i.e. instead of a spark consisting of a few mA it was possibly several Amps?again all I know is my take on what they are saying, and looking at some of the video;s the spark is definatly way more increadesed in power.

It seems clear that you have not really thought this through based on the numbers that you are giving. You do know that the spark voltage is from 40KV to 100KV and 2 amps as you suggest would be a something like 80KW. You do realize this is just an enormous amount of power, far beyond anything you could put in an automobile.

I think it is great that you show much interest in this sort of thing, but I would suggest that before you press the I believe button, you work a few numbers out, understand the process and chemistry involved.

But remember, laws have been rewritten with new discoveries so hang in there. What I mean to say is, I do not wish to discourage you

Originally Posted by Electric_EyE

oh yeah. Dilithium, like the dilithium crystals that was Scotty's responsibility on the Enterprise for the main power generator for the warp drive. Now that is funny. I wish I could laugh as much when I fill my little puny gas tank on my 1997 Geo Metro 5-speed and it costs 30+$ to do it. used to be closer to the low 20$. MFR's control our oil prices. America will grow out of it's dependance sooner than later. And it will be tax free

Unfortunately I happen to be one of those late 70's early 80's believers that thought we were going to fix some of the worlds energy problems and that it would come ?

Guess what we are still talking Methane and diesel mixes.

Now it's HHO ?

You know what....... nobody gave a damn once the oil prices dropped and suddenly all the people with books and printing go away just like they did then.

Out the door right along with those high prices. And suddenly we all fall asleep go back out to pasture to forget again.

So, the world is once again being extorted and the same circle will repeat. It's not until people in the know begin to look at the needs of the world instead of big money and profit.

Once again the world needs a new resource it just might be all of the above to make it happen.

Maybe with a stroke of luck and the internet.

I don't know kv

Trivia time Some of you may be interested to know that an ancient Greek by the name of Eratosthenes calculated the circumference of the earth with some precision around 240 B.C, Long before Columbus.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eratosthenes
I guess no one read his papers ( or was it papyrus) after that time.

I guess no one read his papers ( or was it papyrus) after that time.

I saw a TV documentary recently, showing a reconstruction on how he did it.!

It wasnt papyrus, I loaned him my PDA.. α..Ω

Sounds like everyone here should take a chill pill and not take EVERYTHING so seriously
I was stating my views and NOT trying to say what might or might NOT be scientific fact, sure I might get a few things wrong but like I said I havent worked on these ideas yet, they are nothing but ideas.
go back and read the changes I made to this post!
especially those of you who seem to make a habbit of laughing at others thoughts just because we arent "scientists" with many degrees and god knows what else
yes I'm talking about those of you who wrote and laughed at the "star trek" jibe!
Hydrogen for hybrid conversions

Another example I havent quoted because there are TOO many
40 years ago if anyone told you that you could buy a 3AH rechargable battery in AA size (also known as LR6 FR6 R6 or MIGNON sizes) you would have been not only laughed at but ridiculed for being so "stupid"
now if you then told them they wouldnt just be 3AH but RECHARGABLE with none of the memory loss problems of NiCad then you'd probably have been committed into an insane asylum (possibly even 20 yrs ago also)


Now folks, like I said above
take a chill pill
relax
this is meant to be a fun place for EVERYONE whether they are scientific genius's or people throwing "insane" ideas into the group for discussion
and stop taking everything so seriously.

Originally Posted by jpanhalt

Hate to further confuse you with facts on that matter. In 1492, the population of Spain/Iberia was 5.5 million. Using your number as cited, 0.001% is just 55 people. Where did Columbus find all of his sailors and supporters?

In fact, the Flat Earth story is just an elementary school myth. See these links, for example:

http://www.bede.org.uk/flatearth.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth

Columbus had done considerable study on the subject of sailing around the world, and other explorers had shown its feasibility. In other words, Columbus was not just throwing words out for reaction. He was in effect a scientist-explorer. Queen Isabella was no fool. She would not have funded him on a lark.

Your proposal in contrast is not new science, but rather represents a return to mysticism more appropriate for the Dark Ages.



John

Although his ability to sail may not be questionable his desires were always met with his discoveries to equal what his thoughts or beliefs were.

http://latinamericanhistory.suite101...garden_of_eden

When he became a christian his desire was to prove the existance of the garden of eden and that it could be found. And he actually believed he had found it until the day he died. Easy believism was the cause.

It wasn't until the reformation of the Church people were able to read and interpret exactly how many inaccuracy's their were to the bible as well as the discovery's of more text and their implications which led to the dark age's and cover up. It's funny we have one today it's stands only to separate and irritate everyone somehow.

But science was able to finally take root and there was some degree of argument to such myths coming out of the naysayers finally we have the Critic who emerges to quantify and skeptify those elusions of myth. Science has both lent credibility and also taken some of the most sacred believes that are a constant dilution to what should be a simple belief.

If you want to believe in a Creator do so. But everything else in Scripture is conjecture and must be compared to over time to allow common misconceptions to die away an awkward death. Because we are finding that even the garden of eden story itself belongs to an ancient sumerian text predating the bible by 1000 yrs. The story of Gilgamesh

http://bible.tmtm.com/wiki/Garden_of_Eden

The creation story has become a myth in and of itself bound by adoption of almost all cultures in one way or another.

To say your an alien in some ways both lends credibility to an ongoing battle science would not do anything but agree. Your chemical makeup and mass itself has become mutated together into all things on this planet.

We are star dust flung from the farthest reaches of our known Universe undisputed.

Even then you would have never fully convinced Columbus of any truth outside of his own beliefs if contrary to his contemporary's.

So to be completely honest based on history it's very hard not to be ambiguous on both sides of the line.

kv

Edit: Deuterium and cold fusion next generation. 30% more than the energy to Create.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_fusion

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deuterium

This also was a myth but now more methods are being developed to maybe conceive a real possibility.

Now folks, like I said above
take a chill pill
relax
this is meant to be a fun place for EVERYONE whether they are scientific genius's or people throwing "insane" ideas into the group for discussion
and stop taking everything so seriously.

hi Karen,
Dont let the doubting thomas's spook you, hold the dream..

Originally Posted by arrie

If you ask me, the problem is the "people in the know".
Every time they bring something useful to light, they rip the guts out of everyone else.
So I think a real solution, that brings something positive to everyone, will come from grass-root level. Just like those guys in the videos doing what they are, experimenting.
They are not highly qualified, white collared blokes. Normal people, sharing what tit-bits they found with others, hoping something bigger can come of it.
(Please read tit-bits in the appropriate context)

I think you meant "tidbits".

Tit-bits. Sounds slightly. . .er. . .never mind.


Torben