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felis · 3rd January 2008, 03:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crashsite

Where are the economies of scale in the solar panel world?

Economies of scale won't apply here. Bulk material (i.e. high-purity silicon) is expensive - if your product uses a lot of silicon it's going to be expensive as well.

felis · 3rd January 2008, 03:39 AM

Back on the topic of cheap solar panels - I found it very cost-effective to buy broken cells from solar installers and then solder it back together. I'm getting 50-70 cents per watt easily. The density is not that good but for this price who cares.

crashsite · 3rd January 2008, 04:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by felis

Economies of scale won't apply here. Bulk material (i.e. high-purity silicon) is expensive - if your product uses a lot of silicon it's going to be expensive as well.

I have trouble believing this. If you can make a furnace in which you can produce some quantity of pure enough silicon, at minimum, you can make 10,000 furnaces, operating in parallel. You can also make them bigger and develop ways for providing continuous output.

I'm reminded of steel. Steel used to be expensive and difficult to make. Iron was easy but, the minute you added the desirable imputities and heated it up, any oxygen would oxydize the result and ruin the steel. In fact, steel was so valuable, cutting tools were often iron (for heft and support) with a strip of steel welded to the cutting edge. With the advent of the Bessemer process, that allowed high quality steel to be continuously produced, steel became cheap and readily available.

My point is that I can't seriously beleive that an abundant material (I've read that silicon is the most abundant element in the earth's crust...but, whether that's true or not, it's pretty abundant and easy to gather), can't be more economically purified using techniques commonly used to improve economies of scale (larger facilities, parallel processing and continuous production).

blueroomelectronics · 3rd January 2008, 05:13 AM

Maybe it's hard for the government to invest on something they would have a tough time taxing.
Lets say we all had efficent solar homes and used them to recharge our cars. That's a pretty big tax dollar loss.

crashsite · 3rd January 2008, 05:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blueroomelectronics

Maybe it's hard for the government to invest on something they would have a tough time taxing.
Lets say we all had efficent solar homes and used them to recharge our cars. That's a pretty big tax dollar loss.

You seriously think the government would be at a loss as to what else to tax us on if they lost their gasoline/diesel tax revenue? You must be a more trusting gentleman than I am!

blueroomelectronics · 3rd January 2008, 05:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crashsite

You seriously think the government would be at a loss as to what else to tax us on if they lost their gasoline/diesel tax revenue? You must be a more trusting gentleman than I am!

I have no doubt they would find something to tax. These are very big revenue makers.

Thunderchild · 7th February 2008, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crashsite

I kind of don't buy the argument about the toxic materials. Certainly, none of them are "created" in the process of making solar panels.

I think hes talking out of his hat

crashsite · 8th February 2008, 02:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thunderchild

I think hes talking out of his hat

If Joseph Smith could translate the Book of Mormon out of a hat and suck in millions of fanatical cultists maybe there's a future in talking out of one's hat....

But, I think MY disertation at least has technical validity. There's nothing "created", in the way of toxins in making photocells and there's no particular reason to release them into the environmnet during manufacture, use or recycling of them. It's not like the cell gets "used up" like a piece of wood or a chunk of coal as the energy is extracted from it.

Thunderchild · 8th February 2008, 07:46 AM

yes well I get p!ssed off when people say oooh it can't be "the solution" thweres always a draw back I never heard of solar panels needing toxic stuff and once they are made the last 25+ years its not like petrol that you drag half way around the world and then bang its gone used once and thats that

crashsite · 8th February 2008, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thunderchild

yes well I get p!ssed off when people say oooh it can't be "the solution" thweres always a draw back

Hmmmmmm...maybe it's a "Limey vs. Yank" thing. Here, in America, "talking out of one's hat" (or, "through your hat") means that you are talking without knowing what you are talking about. But, it would seem, form your last post, that we agree on this completely.

Thunderchild · 8th February 2008, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crashsite

But, it would seem, form your last post, that we agree on this completely.

thats nice to know

3rd January 2008, 05:13 AM	(permalink)
blueroomelectronics Experienced Member Blog Entries: 4	Maybe it's hard for the government to invest on something they would have a tough time taxing. Lets say we all had efficent solar homes and used them to recharge our cars. That's a pretty big tax dollar loss. __________________ Bill Smart Kits build Smart People http://www.blueroomelectronics.com

8th February 2008, 07:46 AM	(permalink)
Thunderchild Experienced Member	yes well I get p!ssed off when people say oooh it can't be "the solution" thweres always a draw back I never heard of solar panels needing toxic stuff and once they are made the last 25+ years its not like petrol that you drag half way around the world and then bang its gone used once and thats that __________________ I AM the exeption that disproves the rule in many ways but the rules still apply (unfortunately) my site:www.simons-photography.com http://rushdenrotaract.org.uk see also http://www.bigstockphoto.com/account...fid=m2URATYch5 http://www.redbubble.com/people/simonsphotography

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3rd January 2008, 03:39 AM	(permalink)
felis Experienced Member	Back on the topic of cheap solar panels - I found it very cost-effective to buy broken cells from solar installers and then solder it back together. I'm getting 50-70 cents per watt easily. The density is not that good but for this price who cares.