philba

Actually, I think that declining production will hurt them a lot sooner. Any company that thinks of itself as an Oil Company instead of an energy company is doomed. History is replete with failures due to short term thinking (railroads vs transportation).

Anyway, if they aren't searching out new sources of energy, they are going away soon. Instead of killing people, they would be courting them with high priced salaries, stock options, fancy labs, ...

It is a fantasy to think that some little guy will figure out what heavily funded scientists and engineers with deep expertise haven't.

Broz

I looked at the website that you linked. If it is true that more energy is going in to heating the water than electrical energy being pumped in, then one is left wondering if there is some chemical reaction that is occuring that is not reversible (reversible meaning with no energy loss). My guess would be the additives to water to make it more conductive. Frequently in these websites they claim the additive is a catalyst. This is not true because the additive is consumed by the reaction, and a true catalyst is not consumed by the reaction. Also, it looks as if the electrodes themselves are being consumed. This means that some chemical reaction is taking place between the electrodes and the products of the electrolysis. If this is the case then one would have to consider the energy requirements for producing the electrodes in these experiments, and also the energy required to produce the "catalyst".

In every case that I have seen of such claims of efficiency greater than 100% there is always some energy that has been snuck in to the system that has not been accounted for that would make the overall calculations show less than 100% efficiency, as it should be according to the laws of thermodynamics.

So, show me in forms of chemical equations that the "catalyst" used and the electrodes used are not contributing to the excess energy somehow in an irreversible chemical reaction and you might make it an appealing science project. I'm not holding my breath though.

Hero999

Broz,
I agree with what you're saying, the energy has to come from somewhere which makes perfect common sense. The energy in the reaction on the website probably does come from either the electrodes or the 'catalyst'.

The only issue I do have is that the reversibility of a reaction has nothing to do which it. The reaction that occurs when you burn hydrogen is completely reversible by electrolysis (as I'm sure you're aware). I think what you mean by reversibility in this case is that for a chemical to be acting as a catalyst should not be consumed, if it's involved in a chemical reaction that converts it from one form to another the reverse should be happening simultaneously, at exactly the same rate.

__________________
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Get Opera it's simply a superb browser.

firewater

I'am doing more research on phase locked loops after your post Francois, It's very interesting,Here is a excellent link explaining it for others that are interested.

http://www.uoguelph.ca/~antoon/gadgets/pll/pll.html

joculll

I am a very newbie to this er..blog. It says you are experienced next to your name, Experienced at putting people down just because they are trying to prove what they believe to be true!!!!!. I wonder if you would have said that to Galileo or Columbus had you been alive in their time. Albert Einstien FAILED MATHS and dropped out of school did he not but I bet you know dear Albert. I have seen a 4 cyl engine run for a little over 4 minutes on Hydroxy and that was with NO modification what so ever (it was started on petrol granted) here in Perth the State Government has just finished trialling 2 hydrogen buses (again we are talking about pure hydrogen) but they worked wonderfully. Like my like minded friend I too am taking a very scientific approach to my project,I just don't want it to work I NEED to understand HOW and WHY it works and yes I know it works as I have seen it. The Joe cell was supposedly made by accident in Australia over 30 years ago. I always believed that an interchange
of ideas was a good thing except when someone in the discusion thinks he can make himself feel better by putting another belief system down. There is an old saying "if you have nothing nice to say DONT say anything. I understand there is a long way to go and it is frustrating at times but If we help one another understand what we have learned on a personal level and what our aspirations are then we CAN find academic purity in the end. And after all is it so hard to believe that a frequency can upset the covalence shell that one thing becomes another.

MicorRT

I have recently started researching making Brown's gas and I think that the idea of separating hydrogen and oxygen using pulsed DC just might work more efficiently. From what I had read Stan was using a voltage of around 1.0 - 1.5 Kv DC at 20 Khz and this could be depended on the length of his plates (which I believe were stainless 416 grade) pipe on the outside and rods in the center. Also the distance between the plates I would think would effect the frequency.

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73's Timbo

Nigel Goodwin

So if you think it works, why not go out and do it (instead of posting here)?.

No one yet has managed to get these scams to work yet, perhaps you might be the first? - but the majority here are convinced it can't possibly work.

__________________
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karenhornby

LOL
1-1.5Kv? You'd fry yourself

it was actually 1.2V -2V max with I believe 1.2 being the optimum voltage, and the frequency varied all the time depending on the type of water, how much was in the container and the additives in it, thats why so many adjustments

I'm with the " it MIGHT work" group, however there is NO way you can get enough gas to poweran ICE(internal combustion engine) without MANY such setups running in parallel, and the current being drawn by that many would be more than the alternator in the car could supply, let alone supply enough and still power all the other things in the car.
Your talking around 10A minimum per circuit, 20A possibly depending on how you work it and possibly even more, multiply that by the amount of "generators" you'd have to have to produce enough gas to actually power the engine with no petrol(gas for you americans) then your talking around 200Amps MINIMUM

not feasible on a car.

Electric_EyE

Yes, I agree with you 100% Karen. That is why some people only want to supplement expensive gas with inexpensive HHO. ATM, this seems to be THE biggest unknown. How many liters per min of HHO do you need for a 1.0L or bigger engine at a given RPM. Before I can contribute my numbers, I am planning to buy a programmmer, adjust the fuel curves way lean, and adjust the air/fuel mixture from 14.7/1 to something like 30/1 or 60/1. Then add in some HHO. Very complicated and time consuming procedure. Not to mention $500 for the programmer...

__________________
HHO has serious potential!

killivolt

Tell me what ATM means Please. kv

__________________
Truthiness Monkeys : Obedience, Ignorance, Fear.

Torben

ATM = At The Moment
AFAIK = As Far As I Know
WRT = With Regard To
WTF = Whiskey Tango Foxtrot (What the F---?)
IIRC = If I Recall Correctly
YMMV = Your Mileage May Vary

A large collection of common (and not-so-common) Internet acronyms is available at http://www.gaarde.org/acronyms/ (first Google hit). There are others around too.


HTH!

Torben

__________________
Curiosity was framed. Ignorance killed the cat.

killivolt

I don't think any one else would have even bothered.

But you know me.

I still get hit with it ? I will be saving that URL.

Thanks again.

__________________
Truthiness Monkeys : Obedience, Ignorance, Fear.

mneary

I haven't read anything here about how to make inexpensive HHO. Small amounts of HHO can be had using large amounts of electricity. That sounds expensive to me.

Hero999

I hate it when people use those sorts of abbreviations. I never use them.

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Get Opera it's simply a superb browser.

Conrad_Turbo

And he was later proven a fraud in court after duping investors...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Meyers