Nigel Goodwin

Seemed a bit of overkill to me?, basically converting the diesel engine to be a petrol engine, then run it on gas - SERIOUSLY big modifications. Considering a diesel engine costs a LOT more than a petrol one, why not start with a petrol engine in the first place?.

What do you mean?, the tooth fairly isn't real!

__________________
PIC programmer software, and PIC Tutorials at:
http://www.winpicprog.co.uk

philba

Yup and let me tell you about santa claus...

philba

hmmm, convert this one to gas???
http://www.ultimatestupidity.com/pics/1/diesel/

Nigel Goodwin

As you go around the UK you come across various old engines, in museums and even still in use - it's amazing what they run off, some use petrol, some diesel, some gas, some paraffin, some just off oil (like very thick diesel).

Here's a steam engine you can see running at Sheffield http://www.simt.co.uk/collections/collections-2-1.html, it's seriously impressive - it was from a rolling mill, so moved large metal plates back and forth between rollers. As such it has to reverse direction VERY quickly, you wouldn't believe something that big could do it!.

__________________
PIC programmer software, and PIC Tutorials at:
http://www.winpicprog.co.uk

leetate

Yes, it is quite possible to convert a diesel engine to run on natural gas, or even propane. I worked for Caterpillar for many years and they converted their diesel engines to work on natural gas. The secret is that diesel engines use a compression ratio of 22 or so to one. That is the secret of the cycle as the compression heat ignites the fuel mixture. Gasoline engines usually work at lower compression ratio to prevent pre-ignition, or "pinging". The diesel ignition works on a cetane value, whereas the gasoline engine works on an octane value. Caterpillar converted diesel engines to natural gas by merely adding thickness to the cylinder gasket to lower the compression ratio, and then replaced the injectors with spark plugs and a magneto. I installed many of these units for various purposes, as the more robust engine parts of the diesel engines would mean much more reliability. Incidently, the octane rating of propane is much higher than gasoline.

Hero999

But did the power level drop? If so by how much?

__________________
What's so bad about Microsoft?

Get Opera it's simply a superb browser.

leetate

The point in converting a diesel engine was not about power, but reliabity and convenience. The engines converted ran on natural gas. Most run of the mill gasoline engines have a compression ratio of around 7 or 8 to one. A diesel is more efficient since it runs at around 22 to one. Propane engines can run around 12 to one without pre-combusting. The harder the squeeze on the fuel mixture, the bigger the bang. The octane rating is a number relating to how much you can compress a mixture without causing it to self ignite. The cetane rating is how hard you have to compress a mixture in order to get it to self ignite. A diesel engine has the advantage of not making a mixture until the air is already compressed past the point of self ignition. When you use high octane fuel in a low compression engine you are throwing money away.

Sceadwian

Diesals will burn pretty much anything if it's the right mixture of fuel to air. What about emissions though? In that case efficiency is important due to the massive amounts of pollution that can be thrown off, no matter how cheap or readily available the fuel is.

__________________

leetate

The purpose of this thread is to make a diesel engine converted to run on natural gas. In that event the polution would be insignificant because it would be a clean fuel to begin with.

Sceadwian

Inefficiently burned natural gas produces as much or more polutants than regular diesal or generic combustion engines do when running efficiently, you seem to think there is such a thing as clean fuel =) It's all burned in one way or another it's all dirty.

__________________

leetate

I do not deny that any hydrocarbon engine produces zero carbon dioxide/monoxide emissions. However for emergency electrical usage the engine, whether converted from diesel, or conventional home depot engine, is insignificant compared to the countless streams of automobiles seen on the nations freeways for nothing more than transporting a human being from point a to point b.

daybrown

Diesel has lubricant properties that LPG & gas do not. You cant expect the same durability.

Aloefundi

Hi Philba

When reading your post something was niggling in the back of my mind wrt Ng in a diesel. I did a search and this is what came up.

http://www.motherearthnews.com/DIY/1...-John-Fry.aspx

John Fry lived in ZA for a number of years and he apparently ran a diesel on methane. I havn't looked for any design layouts however reading the article again it looks like a bit of 'imagineering' would be required.

regards

Aloefundi

__________________
Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical liberal minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end - "Unknown"

philba

thanks, interesting article but it just reinforces my belief that there isn't clean solution to be had from a deisel engine. By clean, I mean easy to obtain and run.

Since this is for only occasional usage, I am less concerned about pollution and far more about reliability and low(er) maintenance requirements. The focus on NG is to avoid having to treat and/or manage a liquid fuel. It looks like a gasoline engine conversion is the best bet. I'd still have to deal with oil changes but that's probably acceptable. Especially if the controller can remind me when it's needed.

Interestingly enough, a very large part of the installation cost will be the transfer panel and associated wiring. This is due to the complexity of my site wiring.